Uploaded January 2021 | Updated September 2026, 17 minutes ago
When “Holiness Over Happiness” Is a Lie!
Have you heard this statement applied to your marriage? If you keep telling yourself that holiness is more important than happiness, you’re probably in a destructive relationship. Today I interview Sarah K. Ramsey, a toxic relationship specialist (who also happens to be a pastor’s kid) about the messages we get in church, the criticism we face when we divorce, and how to heal after a toxic relationship.
3:15 - How to know if your abusive husband has really changed?
4:00 - Abusers love to switch between playing the victim and hero.
4:30 - Show us "the fruit"? Abusers have trouble being “doers” not just “hearers”
6:10 - What does it mean when you finally decide to divorce, and suddenly he wants to change?
6:45 - Hoping for change vs. actual change.
7:10 - The big question that works for adults and kids: Do you get your time at the top of the pyramid? It’s healthy when each family member takes a turn at the top.
8:10 - He should have learned how to take turns in elementary school at age 5. Why do you think he’ll suddenly learn this in his 50’s.
9:40 - Is he able to control his behavior?
10:20 - If he repents, do we need to continue forgiving and forgetting?
10:50 - Why Personal integrity is the key to healing.
11:45 - Are we just helping our spouse to become more selfish?
12:30 - Whom do we worship? Who is our God? Is our god our selfish husband? Are we enabling his sin? Are we helping our abusive husband become more toxic?
13:30 - What's the "Love Language" of a narcissist? It’s called, “DO MORE FOR ME.”
They want to see us to more and more and more for them.
15:20 - “I was told I was going to hell if I divorced, that I'd let the sun go down on my anger. That my children would be destroyed.” But Sarah is living an incredible life of ministry.
16:20 - Jesus’ reputation and the Church’s reputation doesn’t depend on me getting a divorce or not. No one ever came to Jesus because they admired an abused Christian wife. That a turnoff to faith.
17:40 - Is divorce a sign of moral decay, or is tolerating abuse a sign of decay? Do we really want to send the message that “Jesus wants you to be abused,” what are we saying about the character of God? People get the message that the church is not safe.
18:20 - Many people have walked away from their local church because it isn’t safe. They don’t want to listen to another sermon that says “Divorcees are quitters who took the quick way out.”
20:50 - How to tell who is the abuser? Ask yourself, “Who is getting the better end of the deal in the relationship?”
22:00 - Abusers like to have their cake and eat it too. And they are good at turning the tables and making you look like the troubled person.
23:10 - What if we treated abuse like cancer? With cancer we do something to “catch it early.” Sadly, we catch abuse in Stage 3 or 4.
24:00 - Smart Girl syndrome. Who were you before this relationship? Healthier? More confident? More life satisfaction?
24:40 - The 5 Systematic Strategies for healing after a toxic relationship.
30:40 - Good Girl Syndrome. We aren’t stupid. We are highly motivated to fix things. We are excellent at working harder and solving problems. Now, enter the toxic person. They take advantage of our good traits.
32:55 - A toxic person loves taking advantage of our work ethic. They have no motivation to change.
33:40 - Switch our thinking: From Good Girl syndrome to Personal Integrity. I don’t want to cover up sin. I don’t want to propagate sin. I don’t want to be the person who did everything to keep the toxic person from facing up to their sin.
Follow Sarah: sarahkramsey.com
Facebook group: Finding Love and Success After a Toxic Relationship
Podcast: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/toxic-person-proof/id1518667023 ------ ABOUT
ABOUT
Gretchen Baskerville is a Christian divorce recovery leader and researcher. Since 1998, she has worked in churches in the Los Angeles area.
Herself the survivor of a toxic marriage, she walked through her own lifesaving divorce and was a single mother for many years. Today she is happily remarried. She is a graduate of Wheaton College with a degree in Bible and Christian Education.
For more information:
Website and Blog: LifeSavingDivorce.com
Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/lifesavingdivorce.bsky.social
Facebook facebook.com/lifesavingdivorce
Instagram instagram.com/gretchenbaskerville
You Tube youtube.com/@lifesavingdivorce
Twitter twitter.com/GGBaskerville
My Book: "The Life-Saving Divorce: Hope for People Leaving Destructive Relationships"
Paperback or eBook: amzn.to/3CCBsnr AUDIOBOOK: amzn.to/4f52Mh4
As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.
FOR A DISCUSSION ON THE TOPIC OF SPIRITUAL ABUSE, read Chap 3 & 4 in The Life-Saving Divorce book.
When “Holiness Over Happiness” Is a Lie!
Have you heard this statement applied to your marriage? If you keep telling yourself that holiness is more important than happiness, you’re probably in a destructive relationship. Today I interview Sarah K. Ramsey, a toxic relationship specialist (who also happens to be a pastor’s kid) about the messages we get in church, the criticism we face when we divorce, and how to heal after a toxic relationship.
3:15 - How to know if your abusive husband has really changed?
4:00 - Abusers love to switch between playing the victim and hero.
4:30 - Show us "the fruit"? Abusers have trouble being “doers” not just “hearers”
6:10 - What does it mean when you finally decide to divorce, and suddenly he wants to change?
6:45 - Hoping for change vs. actual change.
7:10 - The big question that works for adults and kids: Do you get your time at the top of the pyramid? It’s healthy when each family member takes a turn at the top.
8:10 - He should have learned how to take turns in elementary school at age 5. Why do you think he’ll suddenly learn this in his 50’s.
9:40 - Is he able to control his behavior?
10:20 - If he repents, do we need to continue forgiving and forgetting?
10:50 - Why Personal integrity is the key to healing.
11:45 - Are we just helping our spouse to become more selfish?
12:30 - Whom do we worship? Who is our God? Is our god our selfish husband? Are we enabling his sin? Are we helping our abusive husband become more toxic?
13:30 - What's the "Love Language" of a narcissist? It’s called, “DO MORE FOR ME.”
They want to see us to more and more and more for them.
15:20 - “I was told I was going to hell if I divorced, that I'd let the sun go down on my anger. That my children would be destroyed.” But Sarah is living an incredible life of ministry.
16:20 - Jesus’ reputation and the Church’s reputation doesn’t depend on me getting a divorce or not. No one ever came to Jesus because they admired an abused Christian wife. That a turnoff to faith.
17:40 - Is divorce a sign of moral decay, or is tolerating abuse a sign of decay? Do we really want to send the message that “Jesus wants you to be abused,” what are we saying about the character of God? People get the message that the church is not safe.
18:20 - Many people have walked away from their local church because it isn’t safe. They don’t want to listen to another sermon that says “Divorcees are quitters who took the quick way out.”
20:50 - How to tell who is the abuser? Ask yourself, “Who is getting the better end of the deal in the relationship?”
22:00 - Abusers like to have their cake and eat it too. And they are good at turning the tables and making you look like the troubled person.
23:10 - What if we treated abuse like cancer? With cancer we do something to “catch it early.” Sadly, we catch abuse in Stage 3 or 4.
24:00 - Smart Girl syndrome. Who were you before this relationship? Healthier? More confident? More life satisfaction?
24:40 - The 5 Systematic Strategies for healing after a toxic relationship.
30:40 - Good Girl Syndrome. We aren’t stupid. We are highly motivated to fix things. We are excellent at working harder and solving problems. Now, enter the toxic person. They take advantage of our good traits.
32:55 - A toxic person loves taking advantage of our work ethic. They have no motivation to change.
33:40 - Switch our thinking: From Good Girl syndrome to Personal Integrity. I don’t want to cover up sin. I don’t want to propagate sin. I don’t want to be the person who did everything to keep the toxic person from facing up to their sin.
Follow Sarah: sarahkramsey.com
Facebook group: Finding Love and Success After a Toxic Relationship
Podcast: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/toxic-person-proof/id1518667023 ------ ABOUT
ABOUT
Gretchen Baskerville is a Christian divorce recovery leader and researcher. Since 1998, she has worked in churches in the Los Angeles area.
Herself the survivor of a toxic marriage, she walked through her own lifesaving divorce and was a single mother for many years. Today she is happily remarried. She is a graduate of Wheaton College with a degree in Bible and Christian Education.
For more information:
Website and Blog: LifeSavingDivorce.com
Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/lifesavingdivorce.bsky.social
Facebook facebook.com/lifesavingdivorce
Instagram instagram.com/gretchenbaskerville
You Tube youtube.com/@lifesavingdivorce
Twitter twitter.com/GGBaskerville
My Book: "The Life-Saving Divorce: Hope for People Leaving Destructive Relationships"
Paperback or eBook: amzn.to/3CCBsnr AUDIOBOOK: amzn.to/4f52Mh4
As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.
FOR A DISCUSSION ON THE TOPIC OF SPIRITUAL ABUSE, read Chap 3 & 4 in The Life-Saving Divorce book.
