Uploaded December 2021 | Updated September 2026, 1 hour ago
So in a rare fit of producing actually topical content, I wanted to address an idea that I've been seen moving across the social media sphere. Specifically I want to address this recent absolutist assertion that the "Lats have no leverage above 120 degrees of flexion and therefore the pecs and other muscles take over.", or however exactly the Internet Fitness Industry Brain Trust is putting it.
I'm not 100% sure where the idea started although I supsect that Chris Beardsley's article on training the lats is where. It's being reiterated by many including the guys at N1 and someone called Lift Run Bang or some such.
Note: the tough "discourse" with Mike and Lift Run Bang is on Mike's secondary account. Expand the comments here
instagram.com/p/CXjNMsaLhar/c/17953033792581360/?fbclid=IwAR2UNvhuYtUFCMMm_y-51d-Ol74W93v9aaX_EdDSQBWV8fgg-pd59ouNQ6M
Here is the TREAD LIGHTLY comment. Hahahahaha. Christ, grow the hell up.
instagram.com/p/CXjNMsaLhar/c/17953033792581360/r/18171683119162398/?fbclid=IwAR2WVNjFSSURN-bF19uEsV7pi8kZJK5I3v-xECWfn9YmehrjNwm5YqwDecA
Anyhow his typically detailed style, Chris examines a host of data about the lats including a section where moment arms of the lats are analyzed. In it he examines data suggesting that only the inferior (lower) portion of the lats has a lever arm of note at this point in the movement.
This is being used to argue that any lat movement with the shoulder above that point isn't utilizing the lats.
But is it true? Or rather, is the issue a bit more nuanced that the typical trite IG meme or short video would suggest. Guess.
In this overlong video, I look at Chris' article first and then the paper(s) from which the idea about the zero lat moment arm comes from.
Spoiler alert: the topic is more complex than people are making it out to be. But what's new about that.
Links to relevant reserach and articles appear below.
Enjoy (or don't) and Merry Holidays Everyone!
bodyrecomposition.com
store.bodyrecomposition.com
IG: mcdonaldlyle (mostly bad jokes)
***
Link to Chris Beardsley's Article: How to Train the Latissimus Dorsi
sandcresearch.medium.com/how-should-we-train-the-latissimus-dorsi-aed763cfd98c
Hik and Ackland. The moment arms of the muscles spanning the glenohumeral joint: a systematic review. J Anatom (2019)
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/joa.12903
Ackland et al. Moment Arms of the muscles crossing the anatomical shoulder. J Anat (2008)
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC2644775
Kuechle DK et al. Shoulder muscle movement arms during horizontal flexion and elevation. J Shoulder Elbow Surg (1997): 429-439
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9356931
So in a rare fit of producing actually topical content, I wanted to address an idea that I've been seen moving across the social media sphere. Specifically I want to address this recent absolutist assertion that the "Lats have no leverage above 120 degrees of flexion and therefore the pecs and other muscles take over.", or however exactly the Internet Fitness Industry Brain Trust is putting it.
I'm not 100% sure where the idea started although I supsect that Chris Beardsley's article on training the lats is where. It's being reiterated by many including the guys at N1 and someone called Lift Run Bang or some such.
Note: the tough "discourse" with Mike and Lift Run Bang is on Mike's secondary account. Expand the comments here
instagram.com/p/CXjNMsaLhar/c/17953033792581360/?fbclid=IwAR2UNvhuYtUFCMMm_y-51d-Ol74W93v9aaX_EdDSQBWV8fgg-pd59ouNQ6M
Here is the TREAD LIGHTLY comment. Hahahahaha. Christ, grow the hell up.
instagram.com/p/CXjNMsaLhar/c/17953033792581360/r/18171683119162398/?fbclid=IwAR2WVNjFSSURN-bF19uEsV7pi8kZJK5I3v-xECWfn9YmehrjNwm5YqwDecA
Anyhow his typically detailed style, Chris examines a host of data about the lats including a section where moment arms of the lats are analyzed. In it he examines data suggesting that only the inferior (lower) portion of the lats has a lever arm of note at this point in the movement.
This is being used to argue that any lat movement with the shoulder above that point isn't utilizing the lats.
But is it true? Or rather, is the issue a bit more nuanced that the typical trite IG meme or short video would suggest. Guess.
In this overlong video, I look at Chris' article first and then the paper(s) from which the idea about the zero lat moment arm comes from.
Spoiler alert: the topic is more complex than people are making it out to be. But what's new about that.
Links to relevant reserach and articles appear below.
Enjoy (or don't) and Merry Holidays Everyone!
bodyrecomposition.com
store.bodyrecomposition.com
IG: mcdonaldlyle (mostly bad jokes)
***
Link to Chris Beardsley's Article: How to Train the Latissimus Dorsi
sandcresearch.medium.com/how-should-we-train-the-latissimus-dorsi-aed763cfd98c
Hik and Ackland. The moment arms of the muscles spanning the glenohumeral joint: a systematic review. J Anatom (2019)
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/joa.12903
Ackland et al. Moment Arms of the muscles crossing the anatomical shoulder. J Anat (2008)
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC2644775
Kuechle DK et al. Shoulder muscle movement arms during horizontal flexion and elevation. J Shoulder Elbow Surg (1997): 429-439
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9356931
