Uploaded February 2023 | Updated September 2026, 8 hours ago
Episode 102 - Dutch Journalists : Words Matter...The Media's Influence to Share or to Silence
Chapters
00:00 Introduction
07:09 Interview Starts
19:57 You Cannot Be "Old-Fashioned" in the Netherlands
25:20 One-Sided Media Coverage
32:25 How Jan and Peter Started Looking into the Dutch Studies
41:25 When You Remove Boundaries, Children Get Hurt
52:53 Are the Dutch Being Deceptive or Sloppy?
The development of the Dutch protocol, and the research conducted from its practice, has become the basis for gender-related medical intervention in children all over the world; specifically, using drugs to block children's puberty and subsequently using cross-sex hormones and surgery to medicalize their 'transition.' The Dutch model has the reputation of being the “gold standard of care” for youth transgender medicine and is often cited when defending the use of puberty blockers and surgeries in minors and young adults. In many ways, it created the possibility of gender 'transition' in children.
On today’s episode, Sasha and Stella welcome Dutch journalist, Jan Kuitenbrouwer and Dutch sociologist, Peter Vasterman. The two collaborated and most recently published an article; (translated title) “Trans Care Too Must Meet Health Science Standards”, weighing caution to the quality of the standard of care for transgender health and medicine, virtually all based on and adapted from the Dutch model of care.
Jan Kuitenbrouwer is Dutch writer, journalist, award-winning columnist and bestselling author, who has published extensively on gender and the trans movement since early last year. His 40+ year career yields an extensive body of work centered around themes exploring social and cultural trends, information technology, politics, and language.
Dr. Peter Vasterman is a media sociologist and former assistant professor of media sociology at the University of Amsterdam, department of Media Studies, as well as coordinator of the Master in Journalism. He obtained his PhD in 2004 at the University of Amsterdam with a dissertation, titled “Mediahype” on the effect of media hypes on news topics such as senseless violence, His main research areas include: media hypes and the role of the (social) media in the construction of social problems, scandals, crises and disasters.
In this conversation, you will hear them both speak about the prideful nature of Dutch culture: the Dutch often hold themselves in high esteem for being a ‘gidsland’, a beacon of progression for the rest of the world. In a culture where conformity is a highly valued way of life, the Dutch may leave little room for debate and contrast. As such, it is to no surprise that the Dutch mainstream media played a substantial role in promoting early medical interventions for youth with gender dysphoria. Peter and Jan discuss the challenges they faced when attempting to publish pieces which objectively review the full context of the medical protocol. Stories which attempt to frame the Dutch Protocol as anything other than a leading medical innovation with impressive aesthetic outcomes seemed to have been hushed and rejected in the news. Media messaging extravagantly lacked attention to the complicated elements of the medical pathway, and silenced the voices who tried to draw attention to the dangerous risks associated with the transgender treatments for youth.
Links:
Jan Kuitenbrouwer
twitter.com/kuitenbrouwer
https://www.hpdetijd.nl/auteurs/jan-kuitenbrouwer/
Links to Articles:
docs.google.com/document/d/1BramcMXake0JCB454My06ChP9siI8OS94Thv3izp_h0/edit
Peter Vasterman:
vasterman.blogspot.com
https://www.aup.nl/en/author/206709/peter-l-m-vasterman
Article they Co-Wrote (English version):
docs.google.com/document/d/1S_coeD1ChooRCZnmGgHL3PkOPHJbUXeL0cXycuOgmlY/mobilebasic
If you liked this episode, more episodes you might find interesting:
Episode 71 - Gender: The American State of Affairs with Jesse Singal
youtu.be/hskOPKKuX9E
Episode 55 - Who Gets to Decide What's Normal: A Conversation w/ Lisa Selin Davis
youtu.be/rrWL9X9TybY
The Dutch Studies Playlist
youtube.com/playlist?list=PLngVCeAoK6vudCwfy0R2Rvg_SH2QxBJTu
Please visit widerlenspod.com to explore more content, access additional resources, or to join our listener community.
To learn more about our sponsors, visit:
ReIME
Genspect
Episode 102 - Dutch Journalists : Words Matter...The Media's Influence to Share or to Silence
Chapters
00:00 Introduction
07:09 Interview Starts
19:57 You Cannot Be "Old-Fashioned" in the Netherlands
25:20 One-Sided Media Coverage
32:25 How Jan and Peter Started Looking into the Dutch Studies
41:25 When You Remove Boundaries, Children Get Hurt
52:53 Are the Dutch Being Deceptive or Sloppy?
The development of the Dutch protocol, and the research conducted from its practice, has become the basis for gender-related medical intervention in children all over the world; specifically, using drugs to block children's puberty and subsequently using cross-sex hormones and surgery to medicalize their 'transition.' The Dutch model has the reputation of being the “gold standard of care” for youth transgender medicine and is often cited when defending the use of puberty blockers and surgeries in minors and young adults. In many ways, it created the possibility of gender 'transition' in children.
On today’s episode, Sasha and Stella welcome Dutch journalist, Jan Kuitenbrouwer and Dutch sociologist, Peter Vasterman. The two collaborated and most recently published an article; (translated title) “Trans Care Too Must Meet Health Science Standards”, weighing caution to the quality of the standard of care for transgender health and medicine, virtually all based on and adapted from the Dutch model of care.
Jan Kuitenbrouwer is Dutch writer, journalist, award-winning columnist and bestselling author, who has published extensively on gender and the trans movement since early last year. His 40+ year career yields an extensive body of work centered around themes exploring social and cultural trends, information technology, politics, and language.
Dr. Peter Vasterman is a media sociologist and former assistant professor of media sociology at the University of Amsterdam, department of Media Studies, as well as coordinator of the Master in Journalism. He obtained his PhD in 2004 at the University of Amsterdam with a dissertation, titled “Mediahype” on the effect of media hypes on news topics such as senseless violence, His main research areas include: media hypes and the role of the (social) media in the construction of social problems, scandals, crises and disasters.
In this conversation, you will hear them both speak about the prideful nature of Dutch culture: the Dutch often hold themselves in high esteem for being a ‘gidsland’, a beacon of progression for the rest of the world. In a culture where conformity is a highly valued way of life, the Dutch may leave little room for debate and contrast. As such, it is to no surprise that the Dutch mainstream media played a substantial role in promoting early medical interventions for youth with gender dysphoria. Peter and Jan discuss the challenges they faced when attempting to publish pieces which objectively review the full context of the medical protocol. Stories which attempt to frame the Dutch Protocol as anything other than a leading medical innovation with impressive aesthetic outcomes seemed to have been hushed and rejected in the news. Media messaging extravagantly lacked attention to the complicated elements of the medical pathway, and silenced the voices who tried to draw attention to the dangerous risks associated with the transgender treatments for youth.
Links:
Jan Kuitenbrouwer
twitter.com/kuitenbrouwer
https://www.hpdetijd.nl/auteurs/jan-kuitenbrouwer/
Links to Articles:
docs.google.com/document/d/1BramcMXake0JCB454My06ChP9siI8OS94Thv3izp_h0/edit
Peter Vasterman:
vasterman.blogspot.com
https://www.aup.nl/en/author/206709/peter-l-m-vasterman
Article they Co-Wrote (English version):
docs.google.com/document/d/1S_coeD1ChooRCZnmGgHL3PkOPHJbUXeL0cXycuOgmlY/mobilebasic
If you liked this episode, more episodes you might find interesting:
Episode 71 - Gender: The American State of Affairs with Jesse Singal
youtu.be/hskOPKKuX9E
Episode 55 - Who Gets to Decide What's Normal: A Conversation w/ Lisa Selin Davis
youtu.be/rrWL9X9TybY
The Dutch Studies Playlist
youtube.com/playlist?list=PLngVCeAoK6vudCwfy0R2Rvg_SH2QxBJTu
Please visit widerlenspod.com to explore more content, access additional resources, or to join our listener community.
To learn more about our sponsors, visit:
ReIME
Genspect
