Uploaded July 2024 | Updated September 2026, 1 week ago
Paul Vander Klay is a minister at Living Stones CRC in Sacramento, CA, known for his engaging online discussions on faith and thoughtful community engagement.
How can the convergence of ancient spiritual practices and modern cognitive science redefine our understanding of identity and collective wisdom?
In this episode of "Voices with Vervaeke," John Vervaeke and Paul Vander Klay explore the intersections of personal transformation and collective wisdom. They discuss the role of spiritual practices like Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy in modern society and their implications for personal growth and collective understanding. The conversation highlights the significance of relationality in understanding agency and cognition, emphasizing how our relationships with others shape our sense of self and our ability to navigate the world. John and Paul also address the advent of the sacred in modern culture and the potential for new cultural cognitive grammars. They share insights from their personal and professional experiences, offering a thought-provoking exploration of modern spirituality and relational being. This episode leaves listeners with a deeper understanding of how personal growth and collective wisdom are intertwined.
Embark on a journey with us to tackle the Meaning Crisis by joining our exclusive Patreon community. patreon.com/johnvervaeke
—
00:00 Introduction: Faith, Friendship, and Exploration
03:10 Exploring IFS Therapy, Dialogical Self, and Archetypal Experiences
08:50 Dialoguing with Hermes: Ally Work and Neoplatonic Traditions
14:00 Dialogical Models and Changing Public Perception of Humans
22:50 Rethinking the Self: Transjectivity, Relationality, and the Imaginal
28:00 Beyond Substance Ontology
55:00 Dialogical Presencing and Transjective Ontology in Religion
58:05 Communal Aspects of Christian Tradition
01:01:35 Dialogical Practice and Hermetic Consciousness
01:05:25 Therapeutic Practices and Self-Deception
01:12:15 Exploring the Sacred in IFS and Dialogical Practices
01:40:50 Conclusion: Embracing Vulnerability and Honesty
—
The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission. vervaekefoundation.org
Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships. awakentomeaning.com
—
Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Internal Family Systems (IFS) Therapy
Dialogical Practices
Hermes (Guiding Figure)
Proclus
Plotinus
Jordan Peterson
Jonathan Pageau
Seth Allison
Kasra Mirzaie
Richard Schwartz
Marc Lewis
Anderson Todd
Jeffrey Raff
Dallas Willard
James Fuller
Robert Falconer
Sam Tideman
Paul Kingsnorth
Martin Shaw
Richard Rohlin (Universal History)
Gregory Shaw, Hellenic Tantra: The Theurgic Platonism of Iamblichus
Ben Alderson-Day, Presence: The Strange Science and True Stories of the Unseen Other
T. M. Luhrmann, How God Becomes Real: Kindling the Presence of Invisible Others
Paul Ricoeur, Fallible Man: Philosophy of the Will
Plato, The Seventh Letter
Charles Taylor
Neoplatonism
Socrates
Relevant Episodes
Attachment Theory Beyond Therapy: Seth Allison on Wisdom and Connection
youtube.com/watch?v=MR8xowORgeA
Exploring the Depths of Internal Family Systems with Seth Allison
youtube.com/watch?v=AhhHsQsR9lM&t=4s
Wisdom Through the Imaginal: IFS Insights with Seth Allison Part 3 youtube.com/watch?v=7ZVr7R3LOJk&t=198s
Engaging the Imaginal: Kasra Mirzaie on IFS and the Meaning Crisis youtube.com/watch?v=xOTWGLmYtjE&t=1s
The Elusive I - Part 1 - The Cognitive Science Show
youtube.com/watch?v=_Fnmp6UVafM&t=19s
AI Sages and the Ethical Frontier: Exploring Human Values, Embodiment, and Spiritual Realms
youtube.com/watch?v=6pU1clFG_rg
—
Follow John Vervaeke
johnvervaeke.com
twitter.com/vervaeke_john
youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
patreon.com/johnvervaeke
Follow Paul Vander Klay
paulvanderklay.me
https://x.com/PaulVanderKlay
youtube.com/@PaulVanderKlay
—
Thank you for watching!
Paul Vander Klay is a minister at Living Stones CRC in Sacramento, CA, known for his engaging online discussions on faith and thoughtful community engagement.
How can the convergence of ancient spiritual practices and modern cognitive science redefine our understanding of identity and collective wisdom?
In this episode of "Voices with Vervaeke," John Vervaeke and Paul Vander Klay explore the intersections of personal transformation and collective wisdom. They discuss the role of spiritual practices like Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy in modern society and their implications for personal growth and collective understanding. The conversation highlights the significance of relationality in understanding agency and cognition, emphasizing how our relationships with others shape our sense of self and our ability to navigate the world. John and Paul also address the advent of the sacred in modern culture and the potential for new cultural cognitive grammars. They share insights from their personal and professional experiences, offering a thought-provoking exploration of modern spirituality and relational being. This episode leaves listeners with a deeper understanding of how personal growth and collective wisdom are intertwined.
Embark on a journey with us to tackle the Meaning Crisis by joining our exclusive Patreon community. patreon.com/johnvervaeke
—
00:00 Introduction: Faith, Friendship, and Exploration
03:10 Exploring IFS Therapy, Dialogical Self, and Archetypal Experiences
08:50 Dialoguing with Hermes: Ally Work and Neoplatonic Traditions
14:00 Dialogical Models and Changing Public Perception of Humans
22:50 Rethinking the Self: Transjectivity, Relationality, and the Imaginal
28:00 Beyond Substance Ontology
55:00 Dialogical Presencing and Transjective Ontology in Religion
58:05 Communal Aspects of Christian Tradition
01:01:35 Dialogical Practice and Hermetic Consciousness
01:05:25 Therapeutic Practices and Self-Deception
01:12:15 Exploring the Sacred in IFS and Dialogical Practices
01:40:50 Conclusion: Embracing Vulnerability and Honesty
—
The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission. vervaekefoundation.org
Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships. awakentomeaning.com
—
Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Internal Family Systems (IFS) Therapy
Dialogical Practices
Hermes (Guiding Figure)
Proclus
Plotinus
Jordan Peterson
Jonathan Pageau
Seth Allison
Kasra Mirzaie
Richard Schwartz
Marc Lewis
Anderson Todd
Jeffrey Raff
Dallas Willard
James Fuller
Robert Falconer
Sam Tideman
Paul Kingsnorth
Martin Shaw
Richard Rohlin (Universal History)
Gregory Shaw, Hellenic Tantra: The Theurgic Platonism of Iamblichus
Ben Alderson-Day, Presence: The Strange Science and True Stories of the Unseen Other
T. M. Luhrmann, How God Becomes Real: Kindling the Presence of Invisible Others
Paul Ricoeur, Fallible Man: Philosophy of the Will
Plato, The Seventh Letter
Charles Taylor
Neoplatonism
Socrates
Relevant Episodes
Attachment Theory Beyond Therapy: Seth Allison on Wisdom and Connection
youtube.com/watch?v=MR8xowORgeA
Exploring the Depths of Internal Family Systems with Seth Allison
youtube.com/watch?v=AhhHsQsR9lM&t=4s
Wisdom Through the Imaginal: IFS Insights with Seth Allison Part 3 youtube.com/watch?v=7ZVr7R3LOJk&t=198s
Engaging the Imaginal: Kasra Mirzaie on IFS and the Meaning Crisis youtube.com/watch?v=xOTWGLmYtjE&t=1s
The Elusive I - Part 1 - The Cognitive Science Show
youtube.com/watch?v=_Fnmp6UVafM&t=19s
AI Sages and the Ethical Frontier: Exploring Human Values, Embodiment, and Spiritual Realms
youtube.com/watch?v=6pU1clFG_rg
—
Follow John Vervaeke
johnvervaeke.com
twitter.com/vervaeke_john
youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
patreon.com/johnvervaeke
Follow Paul Vander Klay
paulvanderklay.me
https://x.com/PaulVanderKlay
youtube.com/@PaulVanderKlay
—
Thank you for watching!
