Uploaded May 2025 | Updated September 2026, 1 week ago
Britt Hartley is a certified spiritual director, meditation teacher, and leading voice in secular spirituality, specializing in religious trauma, deconstruction, and nihilism recovery. With a Master’s in Applied Theology, doctoral work in Open and Relational Theology (ABD), and training across Sufi, Mormon, and meditation traditions, she is the author of No Nonsense Spirituality: All the Tools, No Faith Required and a respected scholar on Gen Z and the future of American religion.
Britt Hartley:
nononsensespirituality.com
instagram.com/nononsensespirituality
youtube.com/@nononsensespirituality
Each quarter, John engages in thought-provoking extended conversations with a leading expert in psychology, philosophy, and spirituality. Each season offers a unique exploration, bringing together their diverse fields of knowledge to create fresh insights and understanding. These in-depth discussions, chaptered for your convenience, offer nuanced perspectives and integrative approaches to navigating our complex world.
The first episode is free and publicly available. To follow the rest of the season as well as gain access to previous discussions, you can sign up at the Beta Tier (and above) on The Lectern lectern.teachable.com/p/lectern-lounge
If you would like to donate purely out of goodwill to support John’s work, please consider joining our Patreon. patreon.com/johnvervaeke
The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. vervaekefoundation.org
If you would like to learn and engage regularly in practices that are informed, developed and endorsed by John and his work, visit Awaken to Meaning’s calendar to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships. awakentomeaning.com/join-practice
John Vervaeke:
johnvervaeke.com
twitter.com/vervaeke_john
youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
patreon.com/johnvervaeke
"How can someone rebuild meaning, a sense of the sacred, and genuine connection after religion, without having to adopt beliefs they no longer hold?"
John Vervaeke is joined by Atheist Spiritual Director, Britt Hartley to explore what happens after belief falls apart. Britt shares her personal journey through suicidal nihilism and how mysticism, resonance, and play led her to rediscover meaning and orientation in life without needing to return to religion. John and Britt challenge the limits of therapeutic models, explore the difference between propositional truth and lived wisdom, and ask whether modern secular culture has lost the capacity to sustain sacredness. This Lectern is a philosophical act of compassion, bridging ancient spiritual technologies and contemporary existential pain. John and Britt offer pathways for transformation that bypass belief while restoring depth, connectedness, and awe.
Notes:
0:00 Welcome to The Lectern
2:00 Meet Britt Hartley - Theological Background and Faith Crisis
5:00 The Descent into Suicidal Nihilism
10:00 Religion’s Collapse and the Meaning Crisis
15:00 Philosophical vs. Clinical Healing
16:00 Why Therapy ‘Fails’ the Nihilist
21:00 Religion, Secularism, and Building Your Own Path
26:30 Balancing Fundamentalism and Nihilism
31:00 ”The most spiritual atheist and the most deconstructed Christian, the space in between those two people when you actually look at their life is just a hair. And like, maybe that's an important hair to both sides, but it's just a hair.”
34:30 The Triple Transcendent and Sacredness
40:30 Mysticism and the Sacred
45:30 Building a Life Worth Experiencing
53:00 The Role of Play and Resonance
55:00 Embodied Knowing and Existential Shifts
58:00 Trauma, Depression, and Resonance Recovery
1:09:30 Exploring 'Holy Envy' and Interfaith Learning
1:12:00 The Transformative Power of Sufism
1:19:00 Feminine Perspective on Religion
1:25:30 The Value of Tailored Spiritual Practices
Britt Hartley is a certified spiritual director, meditation teacher, and leading voice in secular spirituality, specializing in religious trauma, deconstruction, and nihilism recovery. With a Master’s in Applied Theology, doctoral work in Open and Relational Theology (ABD), and training across Sufi, Mormon, and meditation traditions, she is the author of No Nonsense Spirituality: All the Tools, No Faith Required and a respected scholar on Gen Z and the future of American religion.
Britt Hartley:
nononsensespirituality.com
instagram.com/nononsensespirituality
youtube.com/@nononsensespirituality
Each quarter, John engages in thought-provoking extended conversations with a leading expert in psychology, philosophy, and spirituality. Each season offers a unique exploration, bringing together their diverse fields of knowledge to create fresh insights and understanding. These in-depth discussions, chaptered for your convenience, offer nuanced perspectives and integrative approaches to navigating our complex world.
The first episode is free and publicly available. To follow the rest of the season as well as gain access to previous discussions, you can sign up at the Beta Tier (and above) on The Lectern lectern.teachable.com/p/lectern-lounge
If you would like to donate purely out of goodwill to support John’s work, please consider joining our Patreon. patreon.com/johnvervaeke
The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. vervaekefoundation.org
If you would like to learn and engage regularly in practices that are informed, developed and endorsed by John and his work, visit Awaken to Meaning’s calendar to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships. awakentomeaning.com/join-practice
John Vervaeke:
johnvervaeke.com
twitter.com/vervaeke_john
youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
patreon.com/johnvervaeke
"How can someone rebuild meaning, a sense of the sacred, and genuine connection after religion, without having to adopt beliefs they no longer hold?"
John Vervaeke is joined by Atheist Spiritual Director, Britt Hartley to explore what happens after belief falls apart. Britt shares her personal journey through suicidal nihilism and how mysticism, resonance, and play led her to rediscover meaning and orientation in life without needing to return to religion. John and Britt challenge the limits of therapeutic models, explore the difference between propositional truth and lived wisdom, and ask whether modern secular culture has lost the capacity to sustain sacredness. This Lectern is a philosophical act of compassion, bridging ancient spiritual technologies and contemporary existential pain. John and Britt offer pathways for transformation that bypass belief while restoring depth, connectedness, and awe.
Notes:
0:00 Welcome to The Lectern
2:00 Meet Britt Hartley - Theological Background and Faith Crisis
5:00 The Descent into Suicidal Nihilism
10:00 Religion’s Collapse and the Meaning Crisis
15:00 Philosophical vs. Clinical Healing
16:00 Why Therapy ‘Fails’ the Nihilist
21:00 Religion, Secularism, and Building Your Own Path
26:30 Balancing Fundamentalism and Nihilism
31:00 ”The most spiritual atheist and the most deconstructed Christian, the space in between those two people when you actually look at their life is just a hair. And like, maybe that's an important hair to both sides, but it's just a hair.”
34:30 The Triple Transcendent and Sacredness
40:30 Mysticism and the Sacred
45:30 Building a Life Worth Experiencing
53:00 The Role of Play and Resonance
55:00 Embodied Knowing and Existential Shifts
58:00 Trauma, Depression, and Resonance Recovery
1:09:30 Exploring 'Holy Envy' and Interfaith Learning
1:12:00 The Transformative Power of Sufism
1:19:00 Feminine Perspective on Religion
1:25:30 The Value of Tailored Spiritual Practices
