Uploaded April 2024 | Updated September 2026, 1 week ago
In this episode of “Voices with Vervaeke,” John Vervaeke is joined by Terri Dentry and Tim Adalin to discuss their unique perspectives on the intricate journey from chronic pain to insightful healing. The conversation delves into the psychological and existential dimensions that underpin true transformation, emphasizing the importance of dialogical practices and synoptic integration in achieving profound personal growth and understanding. Through a rich dialogue that navigates the nexus between philosophy, psychology, and therapeutic practice, this conversation offers deep insights into the art of healing, the cultivation of wisdom, and the transformative power of human connectivity. It stands as an essential discussion for those seeking to understand the holistic nature of healing and the potential for personal and collective evolution in the face of adversity.
Guest Bio and Links:
Terri Dentry is a distinguished PhD graduate in interprofessional practice, dedicated to bridging the gap between traditional medical practices and holistic wellness approaches. With a keen focus on patient empowerment and integrated health solutions, Terri advocates for a healthcare model that values dialogical reasoning and personal journey understanding, aiming to transform patient care into a collaborative, multidimensional experience. If you’d like to reach out to Terri to share your own personal story or thoughts, please feel free to email her at terri@thinkred.com.au.
Tim Adalin, founder of Voicecraft, explores the intricate dynamics between participation and transformation. His philosophical inquiry spans metaphysics, consciousness, and identity, underpinning Voicecraft's mission to enrich dialogue on complex modern challenges. You can learn more about Tim Adalin through his website, https://www.timadalin.xyz/, follow him on YouTube, youtube.com/channel/UCKeq9IUfzw-QvDKP7N9K8rw and on his Substack, timadalin.substack.com/.
Resources:
Join our new Patreon
patreon.com/johnvervaeke
The Vervaeke Foundation
vervaekefoundation.org
Awaken to Meaning
awakentomeaning.com
Voicecraft voicecraft.io
Redefining Healing: The Synergy of Psychedelic Integration and Interprofessional Practice youtube.com/watch?v=5o87S6GtVn8&t=30s
Chronic Pain, Trust, and Ethics: A Conversation with Terri Dentry and Nate Kinch youtube.com/watch?v=Lzug-jtx1PA&t=224s
Mere Christianity - C. S. Lewis amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926
Quotes:
"This is not something about this immediate moment of chronic pain requiring a healing process. This is a worldview issue that is happening to all of us from the very start." - Terri Dentry [00:14:22]
"We're trying to get away from some of the fundamental ways in which agency is being implicitly understood or misunderstood in regular medical practice, and restore a proper appreciation of agency." - John Vervaeke [00:09:57]
"Partly what this conversation is pointing to is that there's going to be a different kind of tension essentially immediately experienced when entering into a different relational context." - Tim Adalin [01:11:20]
Glossary of Terms:
Synoptic Integration: The integration of diverse perspectives and modalities to achieve a comprehensive understanding and healing approach.
Interprofessional Practice: Collaboration between practitioners from different disciplines for holistic patient care.
Chapters:
00:00:00 - Introduction, Research Background, and the "Seeing More" Project
00:03:50 - Transformational Journeys and the Power of Shared Pain, Vulnerability, and Relationality
00:11:36 - Agency and Relationality in Medical Practice
00:17:09 - Embodying the Meaning Crisis: Trauma, Narratives, and the Healing Process
00:28:43 - The Pivot Problem: Balancing Finitude and Transcendence in the Healing Journey
00:34:03 - Criticisms of Therapy and the Need for a Shared Worldview
00:44:12 - Dialogos and the Philosophical Silk Road Project
00:54:05 - The Significance of Dialogical Reasoning in Daily Life and Medical Interactions
01:03:34 - Building Structures for Belonging and Support: Challenges and Solutions
01:12:36 - Conclusion: Interprofessional Clinics and the Complexity of Shared Decision-Making
Connect with John:
Website: johnvervaeke.com
YouTube: youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
Patreon: patreon.com/johnvervaeke
X: twitter.com/vervaeke_john
Facebook: facebook.com/VervaekeJohn
In this episode of “Voices with Vervaeke,” John Vervaeke is joined by Terri Dentry and Tim Adalin to discuss their unique perspectives on the intricate journey from chronic pain to insightful healing. The conversation delves into the psychological and existential dimensions that underpin true transformation, emphasizing the importance of dialogical practices and synoptic integration in achieving profound personal growth and understanding. Through a rich dialogue that navigates the nexus between philosophy, psychology, and therapeutic practice, this conversation offers deep insights into the art of healing, the cultivation of wisdom, and the transformative power of human connectivity. It stands as an essential discussion for those seeking to understand the holistic nature of healing and the potential for personal and collective evolution in the face of adversity.
Guest Bio and Links:
Terri Dentry is a distinguished PhD graduate in interprofessional practice, dedicated to bridging the gap between traditional medical practices and holistic wellness approaches. With a keen focus on patient empowerment and integrated health solutions, Terri advocates for a healthcare model that values dialogical reasoning and personal journey understanding, aiming to transform patient care into a collaborative, multidimensional experience. If you’d like to reach out to Terri to share your own personal story or thoughts, please feel free to email her at terri@thinkred.com.au.
Tim Adalin, founder of Voicecraft, explores the intricate dynamics between participation and transformation. His philosophical inquiry spans metaphysics, consciousness, and identity, underpinning Voicecraft's mission to enrich dialogue on complex modern challenges. You can learn more about Tim Adalin through his website, https://www.timadalin.xyz/, follow him on YouTube, youtube.com/channel/UCKeq9IUfzw-QvDKP7N9K8rw and on his Substack, timadalin.substack.com/.
Resources:
Join our new Patreon
patreon.com/johnvervaeke
The Vervaeke Foundation
vervaekefoundation.org
Awaken to Meaning
awakentomeaning.com
Voicecraft voicecraft.io
Redefining Healing: The Synergy of Psychedelic Integration and Interprofessional Practice youtube.com/watch?v=5o87S6GtVn8&t=30s
Chronic Pain, Trust, and Ethics: A Conversation with Terri Dentry and Nate Kinch youtube.com/watch?v=Lzug-jtx1PA&t=224s
Mere Christianity - C. S. Lewis amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926
Quotes:
"This is not something about this immediate moment of chronic pain requiring a healing process. This is a worldview issue that is happening to all of us from the very start." - Terri Dentry [00:14:22]
"We're trying to get away from some of the fundamental ways in which agency is being implicitly understood or misunderstood in regular medical practice, and restore a proper appreciation of agency." - John Vervaeke [00:09:57]
"Partly what this conversation is pointing to is that there's going to be a different kind of tension essentially immediately experienced when entering into a different relational context." - Tim Adalin [01:11:20]
Glossary of Terms:
Synoptic Integration: The integration of diverse perspectives and modalities to achieve a comprehensive understanding and healing approach.
Interprofessional Practice: Collaboration between practitioners from different disciplines for holistic patient care.
Chapters:
00:00:00 - Introduction, Research Background, and the "Seeing More" Project
00:03:50 - Transformational Journeys and the Power of Shared Pain, Vulnerability, and Relationality
00:11:36 - Agency and Relationality in Medical Practice
00:17:09 - Embodying the Meaning Crisis: Trauma, Narratives, and the Healing Process
00:28:43 - The Pivot Problem: Balancing Finitude and Transcendence in the Healing Journey
00:34:03 - Criticisms of Therapy and the Need for a Shared Worldview
00:44:12 - Dialogos and the Philosophical Silk Road Project
00:54:05 - The Significance of Dialogical Reasoning in Daily Life and Medical Interactions
01:03:34 - Building Structures for Belonging and Support: Challenges and Solutions
01:12:36 - Conclusion: Interprofessional Clinics and the Complexity of Shared Decision-Making
Connect with John:
Website: johnvervaeke.com
YouTube: youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
Patreon: patreon.com/johnvervaeke
X: twitter.com/vervaeke_john
Facebook: facebook.com/VervaekeJohn


![Mentoring the Machines: Setting the Course for the Future of Artificial Intelligence
This episode, first released on the “Into the Impossible” channel with Dr. Brian Keating, brings together the brilliant minds of John Vervaeke and Shawn Coyne to discuss the advent of artificial general intelligence and its potential consequences. The conversation starts with the motivations behind major tech figures drive towards AI development and touches upon the issues of trust, adaptation, and the inherent human susceptibility to self-deception. Vervaeke and Coyne, through their book Mentoring the Machines: Surviving the Deep Impact of the Artificially Intelligent Tomorrow, advocate for a nuanced understanding of AI, urging for a mentorship approach to machine development that could ensure AIs alignment with human flourishing. Their dialogue also ventures into the realms of psychology, cognitive science, and the philosophical underpinnings of AI, making a compelling case for the transformative power of AI, not only technologically but also existentially for humanity.
Bios and Links:
Dr. Brian Keating is the Chancellor’s Distinguished Professor of Physics at UC San Diego, specializing in cosmic microwave background research to explore the universes origins. An acclaimed writer, his book Losing the Nobel Prize is an Amazon Editors favorite. He excels as a public speaker, inventor, and podcaster. Explore more at his website, https://briankeating.com/ follow him on Twitter, https://twitter.com/DrBrianKeating or watch his insights on YouTube, https://www.youtube.com/DrBrianKeating.
Shawn Coyne, creator of Story Grid, brings over three decades of publishing expertise, notably with the Big Five publishers, as an independent publisher, literary agent, and head of Genre Management Inc. Dive into his editing method and explore more at https://storygrid.com/.
Embark on a journey with us to tackle the Meaning Crisis by joining our exclusive Patreon group:https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
Connect with John:
Website: https://johnvervaeke.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
X: https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john
Resources:
The Vervaeke Foundation
https://vervaekefoundation.org/
Awaken to Meaning
https://awakentomeaning.com/
Mentoring the Machines: Orientation - Part One: Surviving the Deep Impact of the Artificially Intelligent Tomorrow - John Vervaeke, Shawn Coyne https://www.amazon.com/Mentoring-Machines-Orientation-Artificially-Intelligent/dp/1645010821
Mentoring the Machines: Origins - Part 2: Surviving the Deep Impact of the Artificially Intelligent Tomorrow - John Vervaeke, Shawn Coyne https://www.amazon.com/Mentoring-Machines-Surviving-Artificially-Intelligent/dp/B0CH25KPD3
John Vervaeke Video Essay: AI: The Coming Thresholds and The Path We Must Take | Internationally Acclaimed Cognitive Scientist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A RdKiDbz4&list=PLND1JCRq8VugvT4VYz52DQHxz6vxhRTHw
Quotes:
We should really be framing artificial intelligence as a mentoring of intelligent beings who have the capability and potentialities of becoming even perhaps better than we are. - Shawn Coyne [00:05:52]
Its only when you have genuine intelligence for the actual system or entity itself—an autopoietic system—a system that cares about information because its taking care of itself in a moment by moment basis. Only then could you have something that would actually care about whats going on—the true, the good, or the beautiful. - John Vervaeke [00:15:05]
Glossary of Terms:
AGI (Artificial General Intelligence): A level of artificial intelligence that can understand, learn, and apply knowledge across a wide range of tasks at a level of competence comparable to or surpassing that of a human.
Relevance Realization: The process by which cognitive beings determine what information is relevant to their goals and what is not.
Autopoiesis: The property of a living system (such as a bacterial cell or a multicellular organism) that allows it to maintain and renew itself.
Chapters:
00:00:00 - Introduction
00:02:45 - The Genesis of Mentoring the Machines
00:08:50 - AI, Psychology, and the Alignment Problem
00:16:40 - The Evolution of Editing and Publishing in the AI Era
00:21:00 - Bridging Knowledge and Wisdom
00:29:00 - Einstein, Imagination, and AIs Emotional Depth
00:37:30 - Deciphering Consciousness: AI and the Hard Problem
00:44:40 - Educational Evolution: AI, Pedagogy, and the Future of Teaching
00:53:50 - AIs Impact on Personalized Storytelling
00:58:30 - AI, Psychology, and the Future of Psychotherapy
01:04:20 - Conclusion Mentoring the Machines: Setting the Course for the Future of Artificial Intelligence](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/mPaoHBlnsBA/mqdefault.jpg)
![Practical Eschatology | Transcendent Naturalism #12 with Gregg Henriques and Jordan Hall
Continuing the transcendent naturalism series, hosts John Vervaeke and Gregg Henriques, along with guest Jordan Hall, explore the intersections of cognitive science, philosophy, and spirituality, offering a progressive perspective on the evolution of human consciousness and society. They critically examine the limitations of conventional thought processes, particularly in response to burgeoning global crises, advocating for a shift away from antiquated, adversarial thinking patterns. The discussion delves into the evolution of language, the practical aspects of eschatology, and a transformative phase in human development termed the fifth joint point. A significant focus is placed on adopting new languages and logical frameworks, not just theoretically but also in their practical application, to cultivate a collective, positive future. The conversation uniquely emphasizes the importance of relationality and personal transformation as essential components in driving societal change.
Glossary of Terms
Transcendent Naturalism: A framework combining elements of naturalism with transcendental thinking.
Fifth Joint Point: A concept referring to a significant phase transition in human development.
Practical Eschatology: A term used to describe practical approaches to understanding human evolution and the future.
Jordan Hall
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMzT-mdCqoyEv YZVtE7MQ
Medium: https://medium.com/deep-code
X: https://twitter.com/jgreenhall?lang=en
Gregg Henriques:
Website: https://medium.com/@jordangreenhall%C2%A0%C2%A0
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/gregg.henriques
X: https://twitter.com/henriqgx
John Vervaeke
Website: https://johnvervaeke.com/
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/VervaekeJohn/
X: https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
Resources and References
The Vervaeke Foundation: https://vervaekefoundation.org/
John Vervaeke YouTube
The Religion of Tomorrow | Transcendent Naturalism #11 with Gregg Henriques and Jordan Hall: https://youtu.be/JmOmwLWziAc?si=YyYP2KtcLPDaKMV_
Books, Articles, and Publications
Heidegger, Neoplatonism, and the History of Being: Relation as Ontological Ground - James Filler
Religion and Nothingness - Keiji Nishitani
The Silk Roads: A New History of the World - Peter Frankopan
The Emptying God ; A Buddhist-Jewish-Christian Conversation - Edited by John B. Cobb Jr. and Christopher Ives
Quotes
Language evolution is critical to understanding our collective future. - Jordan Hall
Navigating the fifth joint point requires a deep understanding of our past, present, and potential futures. - Gregg Henriques
Chapters with Timestamps
[00:00:00] Introduction to Transcendent Naturalism
[00:01:00] The Evolution of Language
[00:11:00] Practical Eschatology and Human Development
[00:20:00] The Fifth Joint Point - Navigating Future Challenges
[00:30:00] Interconnection of Languages and Consciousness
[00:40:00] Transcendence through Language and Thought
[00:50:00] Conclusion and Future Perspectives
Timestamped Highlights
[00:00:00] John Vervaeke introduces a discussion on cognitive science and naturalism with Jordan Hall and Gregg Henriques.
[00:01:21] Jordan Hall introduces concepts of practical eschatology and extended transcendent naturalism.
[00:04:52] Hall discusses the cultural split in the AI debate, highlighting societal polarization.
[00:09:11] Vervaeke calls for a new relationship to language and logos.
[00:14:13] Vervaeke highlights Neoplatonism and Zens alternative linguistic and ontological approaches.
[00:20:53] Vervaeke emphasizes the need for existential transformation beyond theory.
[00:38:07] Gregg Henriques and Jordan Hall highlight the role of transcendent naturalism in framing relationality and exploring human potential.
[00:39:30] Henriques discusses developing a life-guiding operating system integrating justification systems and relational dynamics.
[00:40:20] John Vervaeke introduces the idea of a new post-nominalist language to enhance collective intelligence and understanding.
[00:42:07] Vervaeke explores the challenge of engaging with the world without being consumed by its ideologies.
[00:45:37] Jordan Hall stresses the importance of personal and authentic relational experiences in complex modern life.
[00:48:07] Hall discusses the paradox of deeply engaging with the world while maintaining a transcendent perspective.
[00:52:24] Vervaeke reinterprets the concept of God within a non-theistic, relational framework.
[00:55:34] Gregg Henriques shares his daily practice of reflecting on beliefs, values, and mantras to navigate life.
[01:02:20] Hall and Vervaeke discuss incorporating sacredness and relationality in daily life, emphasizing re-enchantment with the sacred. Practical Eschatology | Transcendent Naturalism #12 with Gregg Henriques and Jordan Hall](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5UA5jCtGXI/mqdefault.jpg)
![Wisdom Cultivation in the Chesterton School System
In this enlightening episode, Patrick Deneen joins John Vervaeke to discuss the innovative approach to teaching philosophy at Chesterton Academy. Deneen delves into the integration of Vervaekes influential work, particularly Awakening from the Meaning Crisis, to make philosophical concepts relatable and impactful for students. A significant part of their conversation revolves around students evolving engagement with philosophy, notably their initial skepticism and eventual appreciation of Socratic and classical teachings. The episode also explores the integration of the schools Catholic ethos with its academic pursuits, underscoring the importance of fostering moral and intellectual virtues. Throughout the discussion, both Deneen and Vervaeke share personal reflections, shedding light on the profound impact of philosophy and wisdom in shaping human experiences and education.
Resources and References
Patrick Deneen
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-deneen-780174130/
Chesterton Academy of the Sacred Heart: https://www.chestertonacademyofthesacredheart.org/
John Vervaeke
Website: https://johnvervaeke.com/
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/VervaekeJohn/
X: https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
The Vervaeke Foundation: https://vervaekefoundation.org/
Awakening from the Meaning Crisis Series :https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLND1JCRq8Vuh3f0P5qjrSdb5eC1ZfZwWJ
After Socrates Series: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLND1JCRq8Vuj6q5NP_fXjBzUT1p_qYSCC
On Bullshit - Harry G. Frankfurt: https://www.amazon.com/Bullshit-Harry-G-Frankfurt/dp/0691122946
The World As Gods Icon: Creator and Creation in the Platonic Thought of Thomas Aquinas - Sebastian Morello: https://www.amazon.com/World-As-Gods-Icon-Creation/dp/1621386384/ref=sr_1_1?crid=189BWSK1P32FF&keywords=Sebastian+Morello+The+World+is+the+Icon+of+God&qid=1700606922&sprefix=sebastian+morello+the+world+is+the+icon+of+god%2Caps%2C99&sr=8-1
Summa Contra Gentiles: Book One,God - Thomas Aquinas: https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Thomas-Aquinas/dp/026801678X
What Is Ancient Philosophy? - Pierre Hadot, Michael Chase: https://www.amazon.com/What-Ancient-Philosophy-Pierre-Hadot/dp/0674013735
The Courage to Be - Paul Tillich: https://www.amazon.com/Courage-Be-Third-Terry-Lectures/dp/030018879X/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2UO7JQYQOFQHG&keywords=tillich&qid=1691351905&s=books&sprefix=tillich%2Cstripbooks%2C356&sr=1-3
Beowulf: A New Verse Translation - Seamus Heaney: https://www.amazon.com/Beowulf-Verse-Translation-Seamus-Heaney/dp/0374111197
The Divine Comedy (The Inferno, The Purgatorio, and The Paradiso) - Dante Alighieri: https://www.amazon.com/Divine-Comedy-Inferno-Purgatorio-Paradiso/dp/0451208633
Faust: Parts I & II - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe: https://www.amazon.com/Faust-Johann-Wolfgang-von-Goethe/dp/1507547269/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1V6J23XT9VU2A&keywords=Gertz%27s+Faust&qid=1700607818&s=books&sprefix=gertz%27s+faust%2Cstripbooks%2C96&sr=1-1
Great Expectations - Charles Dickens: https://www.amazon.com/Expectations-Wordsworth-Classics-Charles-Dickens/dp/1853260045/ref=sr_1_1?crid=EWA07VYKWM4R&keywords=great+expectations+book&qid=1700607869&s=books&sprefix=great+expect%2Cstripbooks%2C125&sr=1-1
Phaedo by Plato: https://classics.mit.edu/Plato/phaedo.html
Apology by Plato: https://classics.mit.edu/Plato/apology.html
Crito by Plato: https://classics.mit.edu/Plato/crito.html
Aquinas 101: https://aquinas101.thomisticinstitute.org/
Timecodes:
[00:00:00] Introduction by John Vervaeke
[00:01:20] Patrick Deneens gratitude for Awakening from the Meaning Crisis
[00:03:00] Overview of Chesterton Academys philosophy
[00:05:20] Use of Awakening from the Meaning Crisis in classes
[00:07:20] Deneens academic and personal background
[00:11:20] Teaching Socratic philosophy in a Catholic context
[00:17:20] Integration of Greek philosophy and Catholic theology
[00:21:40] Relationship between Platonic wisdom and Catholic faith
[00:28:00] Culture as the hidden curriculum
[00:32:00] Student enthusiasm for various subjects
[00:34:20] Inclusion of Eastern philosophical traditions
[00:41:00] Indian philosophy leading Deneen back to Catholic faith
[00:46:43] Importance of art in the curriculum
[00:51:00] Addressing the meaning crisis with Christian life
[00:58:40] Discussion about the rediscovery of Aristotle through Muslim philosophers
[01:03:32] The episode concludes with Patrick Deneen emphasizing Chesterton Academys focus on nurturing a natural inclination towards truth and goodness in students and faculty Wisdom Cultivation in the Chesterton School System](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nXn529VSFd4/mqdefault.jpg)

![Could AI Help Solve the Meaning Crisis?
Mahon McCann is a writer, award-winning playwright, philosophy doctoral researcher, martial arts coach, and podcast host who explores personal development and ethical issues of technology.
Are we on the brink of a new era of enlightenment or facing the rise of an existential threat? In this episode, John Vervaeke and Mahon McCann delve into the intricate relationship between artificial intelligence and the human search for meaning. They explore the potential of AI to act as a tool for personal and collective transformation, but also examine the challenges of creating AI that truly understands and respects our values. From predictive processing and relevance realization to Platos cave allegory, this episode offers a fascinating exploration of the intersection between AI and human consciousness.
Support Johns groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community! https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
—
Attention is like a spotlight you shine on things. When you shine your attention on them, they stand out and keep your attention. - John Vervaeke [00:02:12]
“So much of this first generation of AI is an environment, the large scale curation algorithms of social media are whats organizing our experience online. Its not a human being, but its playing this role of orchestrating a lot of our experience and peoples development. And so creating an optimal AI or an optimal environment would be trying to foster optimal agency, optimal meaning, which is really optimal wellbeing as well.” -Mahon McCann [00:38:23]
“I think part of steeling the culture is to get the people within the AI industry [to] drop the sorcerer myth. Drop it. Disidentify with it. Take up the sage mythology. Take that up. That is the way we can do what you want, but in a way that isnt going to set us on a path to destruction. -John Vervaeke [00:59:16]
—
0:00 Introduction to AI Alignment and the Meaning Crisis
1:00 Predictive Processing and Relevance Realization
2:00 Beyond the Spotlight Metaphor: New Models of Attention
6:30 Integrating Predictive Processing with Relevance Realization
23:00 Agency, Meaning, and the Self-Organizing Mind
29:20 Autopoiesis, Agency, and Platos Insights
31:25 Predictive Processing, Motivation, Vertical Alignment, and Horizontal Anticipation
35:05 Optimal Agency, Collective Intelligence, and Persuasive Technologies
37:40 AI as Agents vs. AI as Environment
39:45 The Challenge of Aligning AI with Human Flourishing
53:15 Creating a New Sacredness in the Digital Age
59:44 Concluding Thoughts on Navigating AI Development: Embracing Choice Points, Wisdom, and Foresight for a Collectively Beneficial Future
—
Join the Vervaeke Foundation in our mission to advance the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and make a meaningful impact in the world. https://vervaekefoundation.org/
Discover practices that deepen your virtues and help you connect more deeply with reality and relationships by joining Awaken to Meaning today. https://awakentomeaning.com/
—
Ideas, Authors, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Predictive processing and relevance realization: exploring convergent solutions to the frame problem - Brett Andersen, Mark Miller, John Vervaeke
Ken Lowry
D.C. Schindler
Jonathan Pageau
Mark Miller
Rick Repetti
Attention Is Cognitive Unison: An Essay in Philosophical Psychology - Christopher Mole
Feature-integration theory of attention - Anne Treisman
Metaphors We Live By - George Lakoff and Mark Johnson
Attention Metaphors: How Metaphors Guide the Cognitive Psychology of Attention - Diego Fernandez-Duque, Mark Johnson
William James
Andy Clark
Phenomenology of Perception - Maurice Merleau-Ponty
Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience - Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi
Lev Vygotsky
The Republic - Plato
Theory of motivation
Mentoring the Machines - John Vervaeke and Shawn Coyne
Free-Energy Minimising Agents and Beneficial A.I.: Ambient Smart Environments, Allostasis, and Metacognitive Control - Ben White and Mark Miller
Tristan Harris
Heidegger
—
The Crossroads of Predictive Processing and Relevance Realization | Leiden Symposium - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51wcY39ouGs
AI: The Coming Thresholds and The Path We Must Take | Internationally Acclaimed Cognitive Scientist - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A RdKiDbz4&list=PLND1JCRq8Vui2YOOfrxbeRwJk5jZPmAth&index=1
—
Follow John Vervaeke
https://johnvervaeke.com/
https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john
https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
Follow Mahon McCann
https://www.instagram.com/mahon_mccann/
https://www.mahonmccann.com/
https://www.youtube.com/@MahonMcCann
—
Thank you for watching! Could AI Help Solve the Meaning Crisis?](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/oBAQLsDkZwc/mqdefault.jpg)



![Wisdom in the Age of AI: A Philosophical Quest with Vervaeke, Pageau, and Schindler
Explore the complex relationship between AI and human insight in this thought-provoking episode with John Vervaeke, Ken Lowry, Jonathan Pageau, and DC Schindler. While deeply engaging with the scientific and philosophical aspects of artificial intelligence, the panel discusses its broad implications for our understanding of consciousness, culture, and rational thought. Key points include AIs challenge to our self-perception, its potential to reshape societal norms, and the critical examination of whether AI can approach human-like wisdom and ethical reasoning. The dialogue invites listeners to contemplate AIs role in redefining human rationality, wisdom, and the foundational structures of our societies.
Ken Lowry is a dedicated explorer of the good, true, and beautiful through his channel Climbing Mt Sophia, focusing on wisdom and virtue dialogues. His work fosters key collaborations, enhancing discussions on spirituality and philosophy.
Jonathan Pageau, a French Canadian icon carver and speaker, examines symbolic patterns to reconnect modern life with traditional arts, advocating for the re-enchantment of our contemporary world through ancient wisdom.
DC Schindler, a philosopher and professor, delves into metaphysics, ethics, and cultural philosophy, examining classical philosophys impact on modern challenges, including AI, and its influence on culture and understanding.
John Vervaeke:
Website: https://johnvervaeke.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
X: https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/VervaekeJohn/
Ken Lowry:
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@climbingmt.sophia
Substack: https://kenlowry.substack.com/
Jonathan Pageau:
Website: https://thesymbolicworld.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/jonathanpageau
DC Schindler:
Website: https://www.johnpaulii.edu/academics/faculty/d-c-schindler/
Join our new Patreon
https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke
The Vervaeke Foundation - https://vervaekefoundation.org/
Awaken to Meaning - https://awakentomeaning.com/
Books, Articles, Publications, and Videos
AI: The Coming Thresholds and The Path We Must Take | Internationally Acclaimed Cognitive Scientist - John Vervaeke https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A RdKiDbz4&list=PLND1JCRq8Vui2YOOfrxbeRwJk5jZPmAth&index=1
Mentoring the Machines: Orientation - Part One: Surviving the Deep Impact of the Artificially Intelligent Tomorrow - John Vervaeke, Shawn Coyne https://www.amazon.com/Mentoring-Machines-Orientation-Artificially-Intelligent-ebook/dp/B0CBXKL7P1
Mentoring the Machines: Origins - Part 2: Surviving the Deep Impact of the Artificially Intelligent Tomorrow - John Vervaeke, Shawn Coyne https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CH8W8XLF
Divination and Human Nature: A Cognitive History of Intuition in Classical Antiquity - Peter Struck https://www.amazon.com/Divination-Human-Nature-Cognitive-Intuition/dp/0691183457/
Quotes
I do not honestly see how it is possible for humans to make something that is not derivative of themselves... the idea that these things could not be either ways to increase certain peoples power or parasites on our own consciousness seems to me not conceivable. - Jonathan Pageau [00:24:22]
One of the problems that Im seeing is that a lot of this is motivated by economic, by greed, by the capacity to be economically superior to other companies... what is actually driving AI is something like mammon. - Jonathan Pageau [00:21:39]
I wonder whether its possible to be intelligent without first being alive. Theres something about the nature of a living thing that allows intelligence to emerge. Intelligence is a way of being before its a way of acting and is analogous to what it means to be alive rather than just carry out functions that look like life. - DC Schindler [00:42:59]
Chapters
[00:00:00] - Opening Remarks: AIs Scope and Impact
[00:03:00] - Defining AI: Weak, Strong, and AGI
[00:18:30] - Ethical and Philosophical AI Considerations
[00:32:35] - Integrating Wisdom with AI Development
[00:41:40] - Distinguishing Intelligence and Rationality in AI
[00:51:48] - Aligning Humanity to AI-Driven Cultural Shifts
[01:23:00] - Consciousness and Technology: Extending the Human Mind
[01:42:23] - Speculating AIs Future Directions
[01:57:44] - Final Thoughts: Reflecting on AIs Complexity Wisdom in the Age of AI: A Philosophical Quest with Vervaeke, Pageau, and Schindler](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/r3VXcPK7fG8/mqdefault.jpg)