Uploaded July 2023 | Updated September 2026, 2 weeks ago
An interview with Ann Taves, Ph.D. by Bonnie Bright, Ph.D.
If you began hallucinating, perhaps seeing or hearing things that no one else could perceive, how would you interpret this unusual experience? Ann Taves, Ph.D., professor of Religious Studies at the University of California Santa Barbara and presenter at Pacifica’s upcoming Trauma and Transcendence conference in June 2018, became interested in this topic back in the mid-80s, when there were a lot of people who were being diagnosed with multiple personality disorder. She had a friend who had been abused as a child and who apparently had multiple personalities, or dissociated identity, as the clinicians now call it. Ann says that because she came from a very rational sort of family, it had never dawned on her that our minds could experience changes like what it does with disorders, and she credits knowing her friend and hearing her talk about her experiences as the point at which, for Ann, the door first opened into the range of what was possible.
Ann’s research explores non-ordinary experiences and the way different disciplines might diagnose the same experience, such as hallucinating, in different ways. To illustrate this point in her talks, she often shows the covers of three texts that represent how three different disciplines—psychiatry, religious studies, and psychology—would describe an experience like hallucinating. For the American Psychiatric Association, Ann shows their Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, and for religious studies, she uses William James’ The Varieties of Religious Experience. For the American Psychological Association, she puts up a picture of a more recent book that plays off of William James’ book, called Varieties of Anomalous Experience. Although Ann recognizes that the content of these three texts, the types of experiences included in each, are not identical, she finds that there is a lot of overlap for some kinds of experiences, which are characterized differently in each text.
For example, Ann points out that if you tried to describe an experience like hallucinating as generically as possible, without the language specific to psychology, psychiatry, or religion or spirituality, you might say an individual is hearing a voice, or having a visionary experience. So, if it’s described just in terms of what’s happening, it could wind up in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual as a dissociative disorder or a hallucination. In the Anomalous Experience book, it could wind up in a chapter on anomalous self and identity experiences, and it could, in some cases and depending on who’s experiencing it, wind up in anthropology or religious studies under the heading of shamanism.
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An interview with Ann Taves, Ph.D. by Bonnie Bright, Ph.D.
If you began hallucinating, perhaps seeing or hearing things that no one else could perceive, how would you interpret this unusual experience? Ann Taves, Ph.D., professor of Religious Studies at the University of California Santa Barbara and presenter at Pacifica’s upcoming Trauma and Transcendence conference in June 2018, became interested in this topic back in the mid-80s, when there were a lot of people who were being diagnosed with multiple personality disorder. She had a friend who had been abused as a child and who apparently had multiple personalities, or dissociated identity, as the clinicians now call it. Ann says that because she came from a very rational sort of family, it had never dawned on her that our minds could experience changes like what it does with disorders, and she credits knowing her friend and hearing her talk about her experiences as the point at which, for Ann, the door first opened into the range of what was possible.
Ann’s research explores non-ordinary experiences and the way different disciplines might diagnose the same experience, such as hallucinating, in different ways. To illustrate this point in her talks, she often shows the covers of three texts that represent how three different disciplines—psychiatry, religious studies, and psychology—would describe an experience like hallucinating. For the American Psychiatric Association, Ann shows their Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, and for religious studies, she uses William James’ The Varieties of Religious Experience. For the American Psychological Association, she puts up a picture of a more recent book that plays off of William James’ book, called Varieties of Anomalous Experience. Although Ann recognizes that the content of these three texts, the types of experiences included in each, are not identical, she finds that there is a lot of overlap for some kinds of experiences, which are characterized differently in each text.
For example, Ann points out that if you tried to describe an experience like hallucinating as generically as possible, without the language specific to psychology, psychiatry, or religion or spirituality, you might say an individual is hearing a voice, or having a visionary experience. So, if it’s described just in terms of what’s happening, it could wind up in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual as a dissociative disorder or a hallucination. In the Anomalous Experience book, it could wind up in a chapter on anomalous self and identity experiences, and it could, in some cases and depending on who’s experiencing it, wind up in anthropology or religious studies under the heading of shamanism.
For more information, visit:
DepthInsights.com
OR
InstituteforSoulCenteredPsychologyAndCoaching.com





![Spiritual Implications of Psychosis: How a Spiritual Perspective Can Provide Health Benefits
Interview with Tanya Marie Luhrmann, Ph.D., Watkins University Professor in the Stanford Anthropology Department, by Bonnie Bright, Ph.D.
According to the World Health Organization (WHO), schizophrenia is defined as “a severe mental disorder, characterized by profound disruptions in thinking, affecting language, perception, and the sense of self. It often includes psychotic experiences, such as hearing voices or delusions. It can impair functioning through the loss of an acquired capability to earn a livelihood, or the disruption of studies.” The condition affects more than 21 million people worldwide. [1]
This is an area of mental health that Dr. Tanya Marie Luhrmann, Watkins University Professor in the Stanford Anthropology Department and speaker at Pacifica’s sold out Trauma and Transcendence conference in June 2018, has devoted much of her research. Her work focuses on the edge of experience of voices, visions, the world of the supernatural, and the world of psychosis.
Tanya uses a combination of ethnographic and experimental methods to understand the phenomenology of unusual sensory experiences, the way they are shaped by ideas about the mind and person, and what we can learn from this social shaping that can help us to help those whose voices are distressing. She has done ethnography on the streets of Chicago with homeless and psychotic women and worked with people who hear voices in Chennai, India; Accra, Ghana; and in the San Francisco Bay area. She’s also done fieldwork with Evangelical Christians who seek to hear God speak back, with Zoroastrians who set out to create a more mystical space, and with people who practice magic.
How people interpret these experiences has differed significantly over time and in different cultures, Tanya says. Those who are very sick are often universally recognized as sick or schizophrenic regardless of culture or region, but people who are more on the healthy side of that continuum might have their experience interpreted in many different ways. “It’s quite possible that a clinician would say, well they have something like a story in the body, that looks like what I would call schizophrenia,” she says. “In the interpretive religious wing, another domain, they might be seen as if they were possessed by demons or might be seen as prophets.”
Only recently have mental health researchers and professionals looked at the content of these voices as something that should be studied and listened to, instead of insignificant side effects of the disorder, Tanya observes. “Psychiatric scientists used to think that these voices were just the side effects, the byproducts of the disorder, and you shouldn’t pay any attention to them. You know, they were unreal yet very painful to people, but they were just the byproducts of the disorder.”
These days, however, researchers and mental health professionals are seeing some benefits to paying attention to the content of these voices. Dr. Luhrmann has been studying how one modern faction in Europe has been approaching voices in this way. “There’s now a new movement in Europe called the Hearing Voices Movement (HVM), and what they do is that they teach people to respect their voices,” she says. “They teach people with schizophrenia, paradoxically, to treat their voices as persons, to respect them as persons, and they find that some people are able to, in effect, persuade their voices to become more reasonable persons.”
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![Navigating the Depths: How the Psychoid and Unus Mundus Can Help Us Transcend Trauma
An Interview with Ann Belford Ulanov, Ph.D., L.H.D., by Bonnie Bright, Ph.D.
Ann Belford Ulanov, Ph.D., L.H.D., is a Jungian analyst in private practice in New York City, a member of the Jungian Analytic Association, and former Christiane Brooks Johnson Professor of Psychiatry and Religion at Union Theological Seminary. An internationally known lecturer and prolific author, among her many articles and books are the highly acclaimed Cinderella and Her Sisters: The Envied and the Envying; Spiritual Aspects of Clinical Work; The Wisdom of the Psyche; The Unshuttered Heart: Opening to Aliveness/ Deadness in the Self; The Living God and Our Living Psyche; and Madness and Creativity.
Ann’s most recent book, The Psychoid, Soul and Psyche: Piercing Space-Time Barriers, explores Carl Gustav Jung’s concept of the psychoid. “Psychoid refers to unconscious processes that are unrepresentable in word or image,” Ann says. “We live them, but we don’t know about them. And they can make us feel mad, not angry, but crazy, and I believe they can also be a third source of healing.” She goes on to describe psychoid as “this unrepresentable level of the unconscious processes. [Jung] would say the archetype, for example, is of a psychoid nature, meaning by that, you don’t experience it directly. You experience it through derivatives. An emotion will grip you; a behavior will possess you or compel you. Images would arise or attract you.”
There is a connection between experiencing the psychoid and synchronicities, those “meaningful coincidences.” [1] Ann recalls that Jung defined a synchronistic experience as “non-causal elements coincide and bestow on us, or impact us with an experience of deep meaningfulness, and we aren’t clear whether the meaning exists external to us, so it feels it does, but somehow we participate in it.” Furthermore, Ann says, “the psychoid and synchronicity evoke each other, and both, for Jung, have moments of making you feel connected to what he called the unus mundus, the one world, the larger surround, not just in which we live, but in which life is.”
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