Uploaded August 2026 | Updated September 2026, 3 weeks ago
David Pocock is one of Australia's most influential politicians, working as the Senator of the Australian Capital Territory. He brings a distinctive perspective to some of the country's biggest debates, from climate policy and energy security to democratic reform and the future of work.
A former captain of the Australian rugby team, David entered politics after years of speaking out on issues including climate change, equality and environmental protection. Four years into his Senate career, he joins Michael Liebreich to explain how independent politics works in practice, what he's hearing from voters across Australia, and why he believes the country's clean energy transition must deliver lower household bills as well as lower emissions.
The conversation explores Australia's world-leading rooftop solar uptake, the barriers slowing electric vehicle adoption, and why David believes Australians deserve a greater return from the country's gas exports. They also look ahead to the rise of AI and data centres, asking whether governments are paying enough attention to the implications for jobs, tax revenues and energy demand.
Topics covered in this week's episode:
• David’s journey from rugby player to Senator
• Australian voters' priorities
• Lowering household energy bills
• Australia's clean energy successes
• Why EV adoption lags
• Taxing Australia's gas exports
• Data centres and energy demand
• AI concerns and the future of work
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live
Links:
• David Pocock’s bio: https://www.davidpocock.com.au/about
• David Pocock “Chains himself to digger” news article: bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/30272670
• Aksel Lund Svindal on Cleaning Up: youtube.com/watch?v=cRc1VCBnVgI
• Alex Honnold on Cleaning Up: youtube.com/watch?v=MwmQf0mhHkE
• Prince Albert of Monaco on Cleaning Up: youtube.com/watch?v=p-eYHKpDBYU
• Håkan Agnevall (Wärtsilä) on Cleaning Up: youtube.com/watch?v=dUYjGT55g5A
• Subscribe to our newsletter: cleaninguppod.substack.com
Acronyms:
• C&I: Commercial and Industrial
• ICE: Internal Combustion Engine
• ACT: Australian Capital Territory
Chapters
00:00 Intro
01:48 From Rugby to Politics
11:46 Getting Arrested For Activism
16:35 What Voters Want
20:34 Rising Voter Frustration
26:16 Australia's Energy Report
28:57 Why EVs Lag Behind
31:19 Taxing Gas Exports
36:09 Data Centre Dilemma
39:46 AI vs Human Jobs
44:47 Delivering Real Results
49:44 Outro
Music ID B4AJC8AUDLMMIFEB
David Pocock is one of Australia's most influential politicians, working as the Senator of the Australian Capital Territory. He brings a distinctive perspective to some of the country's biggest debates, from climate policy and energy security to democratic reform and the future of work.
A former captain of the Australian rugby team, David entered politics after years of speaking out on issues including climate change, equality and environmental protection. Four years into his Senate career, he joins Michael Liebreich to explain how independent politics works in practice, what he's hearing from voters across Australia, and why he believes the country's clean energy transition must deliver lower household bills as well as lower emissions.
The conversation explores Australia's world-leading rooftop solar uptake, the barriers slowing electric vehicle adoption, and why David believes Australians deserve a greater return from the country's gas exports. They also look ahead to the rise of AI and data centres, asking whether governments are paying enough attention to the implications for jobs, tax revenues and energy demand.
Topics covered in this week's episode:
• David’s journey from rugby player to Senator
• Australian voters' priorities
• Lowering household energy bills
• Australia's clean energy successes
• Why EV adoption lags
• Taxing Australia's gas exports
• Data centres and energy demand
• AI concerns and the future of work
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live
Links:
• David Pocock’s bio: https://www.davidpocock.com.au/about
• David Pocock “Chains himself to digger” news article: bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/30272670
• Aksel Lund Svindal on Cleaning Up: youtube.com/watch?v=cRc1VCBnVgI
• Alex Honnold on Cleaning Up: youtube.com/watch?v=MwmQf0mhHkE
• Prince Albert of Monaco on Cleaning Up: youtube.com/watch?v=p-eYHKpDBYU
• Håkan Agnevall (Wärtsilä) on Cleaning Up: youtube.com/watch?v=dUYjGT55g5A
• Subscribe to our newsletter: cleaninguppod.substack.com
Acronyms:
• C&I: Commercial and Industrial
• ICE: Internal Combustion Engine
• ACT: Australian Capital Territory
Chapters
00:00 Intro
01:48 From Rugby to Politics
11:46 Getting Arrested For Activism
16:35 What Voters Want
20:34 Rising Voter Frustration
26:16 Australia's Energy Report
28:57 Why EVs Lag Behind
31:19 Taxing Gas Exports
36:09 Data Centre Dilemma
39:46 AI vs Human Jobs
44:47 Delivering Real Results
49:44 Outro
Music ID B4AJC8AUDLMMIFEB
