Uploaded June 2025 | Updated September 2026, 3 weeks ago
What happens if the Amazon rainforest stops absorbing carbon and starts releasing it? Do we need geoengineering to help us cool an overheating planet? And how can developing countries balance environmental preservation with economic development?
This week on Cleaning Up, Baroness Bryony Worthington sits down with Thelma Krug, a renowned Brazilian scientist and mathematician, and former vice chair of the IPCC, to explore these critical questions.
Krug offers an insider's perspective, drawing from her decades of experience monitoring the Amazon rainforest and participating in international climate negotiations.
The conversation ranges from the alarming transformation of the Amazon from a carbon sink to a potential carbon source, to the controversial realm of solar radiation management. As it prepares to host COP30 in Belem in November, Krug provides nuanced insights into Brazil's challenges, the complexities of global climate policy, and the potential for innovative solutions like biofuels and international collaboration.
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.
Discover more:
• Sierra Leone special: youtube.com/watch?v=z-5QjSfy2SM
• COP30 website: https://cop30.br/en
• Degrees Global Forum: degreesglobalforum.org
• Episode 168 with Anand Gopal: youtu.be/33QiMC4nG1k
Chapters:
00:00 - Coming Up
01:00 - Introduction
03:30 - Mathematical Background
05:40 - Kyoto vs Paris
07:05 - Nationally Determined Contributions
09:40 - Is Anyone on Track for 1.5?
12:20 - Land Use
17:00 - Losing the Amazon
21:30 - Drought and Forest Fires
24:00 - Peak Wildfire Season
26:30 - Do We Need Geoengineering?
33:30 - Criticism of the IPCC
40:20 - Are the Scenarios Correct?
43:50 - COP in Brazil
48:30 - Outlawing Oil & Gas in the Amazon
52:30 - Aviations Fuels
55:30 - Risk Metrics
57:40 - Outro
What happens if the Amazon rainforest stops absorbing carbon and starts releasing it? Do we need geoengineering to help us cool an overheating planet? And how can developing countries balance environmental preservation with economic development?
This week on Cleaning Up, Baroness Bryony Worthington sits down with Thelma Krug, a renowned Brazilian scientist and mathematician, and former vice chair of the IPCC, to explore these critical questions.
Krug offers an insider's perspective, drawing from her decades of experience monitoring the Amazon rainforest and participating in international climate negotiations.
The conversation ranges from the alarming transformation of the Amazon from a carbon sink to a potential carbon source, to the controversial realm of solar radiation management. As it prepares to host COP30 in Belem in November, Krug provides nuanced insights into Brazil's challenges, the complexities of global climate policy, and the potential for innovative solutions like biofuels and international collaboration.
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.
Discover more:
• Sierra Leone special: youtube.com/watch?v=z-5QjSfy2SM
• COP30 website: https://cop30.br/en
• Degrees Global Forum: degreesglobalforum.org
• Episode 168 with Anand Gopal: youtu.be/33QiMC4nG1k
Chapters:
00:00 - Coming Up
01:00 - Introduction
03:30 - Mathematical Background
05:40 - Kyoto vs Paris
07:05 - Nationally Determined Contributions
09:40 - Is Anyone on Track for 1.5?
12:20 - Land Use
17:00 - Losing the Amazon
21:30 - Drought and Forest Fires
24:00 - Peak Wildfire Season
26:30 - Do We Need Geoengineering?
33:30 - Criticism of the IPCC
40:20 - Are the Scenarios Correct?
43:50 - COP in Brazil
48:30 - Outlawing Oil & Gas in the Amazon
52:30 - Aviations Fuels
55:30 - Risk Metrics
57:40 - Outro
