Uploaded May 2025 | Updated September 2026, 3 weeks ago
Can an electrical grid be run entirely on renewables, without facing black outs or wide spread power cuts?
"Yes," says Anders Lindberg, President of Energy and Executive VP at Wärtsilä, on this week's episode of Cleaning Up. It'll just cost $65 trillion extra by 2050.
Anders' team at Wärtsilä has recently published its Crossroads to Net Zero report, which argues that keeping a little bit of flexible generation on the grid will save huge amounts of money as the globe strives for net zero, while also speeding up the transition to renewables. The argument centres on what to do with the last few percent of power supply, and what forms of generation need to be built to ensure consistent electricity supply and prevent black or brown outs.
Perhaps unsurprisingly for a gas engine manufacturer, Wärtsilä's report makes the case that gas should provide the last few percentage points of electricity generation. Michael Liebreich puts that claim to the test.
Links and more:
• Wärtsilä's Crossroads to Net Zero report: wartsila.com/energy/towards-100-renewable-energy/choosing-the-optimal-pathway-for-energy-transition
• Can Germany’s Gas Giant Go Green? Ep206: Michael Lewis - youtube.com/watch?v=DOD-f6uSPgc
• Q&A: What we do – and do not – know about the blackout in Spain and Portugal — carbonbrief.org/qa-what-we-do-and-do-not-know-about-the-blackout-in-spain-and-portugal
• ENTSO-E expert panel initiates the investigation into the causes of Iberian blackout: https://www.entsoe.eu/news/2025/05/09/entso-e-expert-panel-initiates-the-investigation-into-the-causes-of-iberian-blackout
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.
Chapters:
00:00 - Coming Up
00:54 - Introduction
05:37 - The $65 Trillion Question
09:50 - Absolutism
13:00 - Can Gas Enable More Renewables?
16:15 - Getting Rid Of the Last 4%
19:20 - Natural Gas Lock In
22:30 - Responding to Peak Demand
26:45 - Reciprocating Engines
31:43 - Methane Slip & Emissions
36:05 - Resilience
39:00 - Spain & Portugal Power Cuts
42:20 - Can You Run A Grid Without Fossil Fuels?
46:51 - We Need A Plan
48:25 - Synchronous Condensers
49:23 - What Happened With Heathrow
53:00 - Tariffs
58:00 - AI And Data Centre Demand
01:00:00 - Outro
Can an electrical grid be run entirely on renewables, without facing black outs or wide spread power cuts?
"Yes," says Anders Lindberg, President of Energy and Executive VP at Wärtsilä, on this week's episode of Cleaning Up. It'll just cost $65 trillion extra by 2050.
Anders' team at Wärtsilä has recently published its Crossroads to Net Zero report, which argues that keeping a little bit of flexible generation on the grid will save huge amounts of money as the globe strives for net zero, while also speeding up the transition to renewables. The argument centres on what to do with the last few percent of power supply, and what forms of generation need to be built to ensure consistent electricity supply and prevent black or brown outs.
Perhaps unsurprisingly for a gas engine manufacturer, Wärtsilä's report makes the case that gas should provide the last few percentage points of electricity generation. Michael Liebreich puts that claim to the test.
Links and more:
• Wärtsilä's Crossroads to Net Zero report: wartsila.com/energy/towards-100-renewable-energy/choosing-the-optimal-pathway-for-energy-transition
• Can Germany’s Gas Giant Go Green? Ep206: Michael Lewis - youtube.com/watch?v=DOD-f6uSPgc
• Q&A: What we do – and do not – know about the blackout in Spain and Portugal — carbonbrief.org/qa-what-we-do-and-do-not-know-about-the-blackout-in-spain-and-portugal
• ENTSO-E expert panel initiates the investigation into the causes of Iberian blackout: https://www.entsoe.eu/news/2025/05/09/entso-e-expert-panel-initiates-the-investigation-into-the-causes-of-iberian-blackout
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.
Chapters:
00:00 - Coming Up
00:54 - Introduction
05:37 - The $65 Trillion Question
09:50 - Absolutism
13:00 - Can Gas Enable More Renewables?
16:15 - Getting Rid Of the Last 4%
19:20 - Natural Gas Lock In
22:30 - Responding to Peak Demand
26:45 - Reciprocating Engines
31:43 - Methane Slip & Emissions
36:05 - Resilience
39:00 - Spain & Portugal Power Cuts
42:20 - Can You Run A Grid Without Fossil Fuels?
46:51 - We Need A Plan
48:25 - Synchronous Condensers
49:23 - What Happened With Heathrow
53:00 - Tariffs
58:00 - AI And Data Centre Demand
01:00:00 - Outro
