khanpadawan | trinities 319 - Thoughts on my debate with Rogers about Mark - Part 1 - culture clash @khanpadawan | Uploaded February 2021 | Updated October 2024, 11 hours ago.
trinities.org/blog/podcast-319-thoughts-on-my-debate-with-rogers-about-mark-part-1-culture-clash In this episode I reflect on the debate of episodes 317 and 318. Topics include:
why I was willing to debate a Jesus-is-God apologist like Rogers
Rogers’s post-debate statements that I think that all trinitarians are blasphemers, and that I regard them with “immense hatred.”
what I meant by referring to Rogers’s views as “fringe”
the idea that we can first interpret the Bible and construct our theology and only then bring in any sort of “philosophical” reasoning
some things Rogers doesn’t understand about contemporary analytic Christian Philosophy
why I don’t assume “that God can be only one Person” or that “if Jesus is God then the Father can’t be God”
the importance of the concept of numerical sameness/identity when it comes to reasoning about God and Jesus
apologists’ obstinate refusal to learn that these are valid forms of argument: a=c, b=c, therefore a=b; Fa, not-Fb, therefore not-(a=b) (“Fx” is a claim that x has feature F)
a vast and directly relevant scholarly literature which Jesus-is-God apologists choose to ignore
the idea of OT “signature acts” of God
Towards the end, I discuss the opening of the gospel according to Mark, with a view towards keeping its characters straight. Below, the terms referring to Jesus are blue, those referring to God are red, and those referring to John are in green. The parts which reflect an assumption of differences between Jesus and God are underlined.
Next episode: how Rogers, in his zeal to argue that Jesus is Yahweh, rejects a massive amount of contemporary conservative Bible scholarship.
Links for this episode @trinities.org/blog/podcast-319-thoughts-on-my-debate-with-rogers-about-mark-part-1-culture-clash
Tre Brickley’s debate map
original debate video
Debating Dale Starter Pack
podcast 264 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 2
podcast 263 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 1
Anthony Rogers’s post-debate discussion with his followers
the apologetics blind-spot on numerical identity
podcast 124 – a challenge to “Jesus is God” apologists
Walton, Old Testament Theology for Christians: From Ancient Context to Enduring Belief
podcast 100 – Dr. Larry Hurtado on God in New Testament Theology
Dunn, Did the First Christians Worship Jesus? The New Testament Evidence
Identity
podcast 271 – Does your Trinity theory require relative identity?
Pawl, The Incarnation
podcast 302 – The Stages of Trinitarian Commitment
Tuggy: What is the Trinity?
podcast 223 – Self-evident truths relevant to Trinity or Incarnation theories – Part 2
podcast 222 – Self-evident truths relevant to Trinity or Incarnation theories – Part 1
podcast 221 – Thomas Reid on human prejudices and common causes of error
podcast 220 – Thomas Reid on First Principles and Common Sense – Part 2
podcast 219 – Thomas Reid on First Principles and Common Sense – Part 1
“Trinity,” Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
“Trinity,” Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy
“Trinity,” Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy
J.P. Moreland
podcast 265 – What apologists don’t understand about the terms “being” and “Person”
podcast 225 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 2 – Old “Lord” vs. New “Lord”
Collins, Mark: A Commentary (Hermeneia: a Critical and Historical Commentary on the Bible)
Acts 3:22; Deuteronomy 18:15; Matthew 5:43-48; 1 Corinthians 8:4-6; Ephesians 4:4-6; Isaiah 46; Mark 1:1-11
This week’s thinking music is “Procreation” by Little Glass Men.
Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy.
This week's thinking music is "Procreation" by Little Glass Men. freemusicarchive.org/music/Little_Glass_Men/Simplify/Procreation
trinities.org/blog/podcast-319-thoughts-on-my-debate-with-rogers-about-mark-part-1-culture-clash In this episode I reflect on the debate of episodes 317 and 318. Topics include:
why I was willing to debate a Jesus-is-God apologist like Rogers
Rogers’s post-debate statements that I think that all trinitarians are blasphemers, and that I regard them with “immense hatred.”
what I meant by referring to Rogers’s views as “fringe”
the idea that we can first interpret the Bible and construct our theology and only then bring in any sort of “philosophical” reasoning
some things Rogers doesn’t understand about contemporary analytic Christian Philosophy
why I don’t assume “that God can be only one Person” or that “if Jesus is God then the Father can’t be God”
the importance of the concept of numerical sameness/identity when it comes to reasoning about God and Jesus
apologists’ obstinate refusal to learn that these are valid forms of argument: a=c, b=c, therefore a=b; Fa, not-Fb, therefore not-(a=b) (“Fx” is a claim that x has feature F)
a vast and directly relevant scholarly literature which Jesus-is-God apologists choose to ignore
the idea of OT “signature acts” of God
Towards the end, I discuss the opening of the gospel according to Mark, with a view towards keeping its characters straight. Below, the terms referring to Jesus are blue, those referring to God are red, and those referring to John are in green. The parts which reflect an assumption of differences between Jesus and God are underlined.
Next episode: how Rogers, in his zeal to argue that Jesus is Yahweh, rejects a massive amount of contemporary conservative Bible scholarship.
Links for this episode @trinities.org/blog/podcast-319-thoughts-on-my-debate-with-rogers-about-mark-part-1-culture-clash
Tre Brickley’s debate map
original debate video
Debating Dale Starter Pack
podcast 264 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 2
podcast 263 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 1
Anthony Rogers’s post-debate discussion with his followers
the apologetics blind-spot on numerical identity
podcast 124 – a challenge to “Jesus is God” apologists
Walton, Old Testament Theology for Christians: From Ancient Context to Enduring Belief
podcast 100 – Dr. Larry Hurtado on God in New Testament Theology
Dunn, Did the First Christians Worship Jesus? The New Testament Evidence
Identity
podcast 271 – Does your Trinity theory require relative identity?
Pawl, The Incarnation
podcast 302 – The Stages of Trinitarian Commitment
Tuggy: What is the Trinity?
podcast 223 – Self-evident truths relevant to Trinity or Incarnation theories – Part 2
podcast 222 – Self-evident truths relevant to Trinity or Incarnation theories – Part 1
podcast 221 – Thomas Reid on human prejudices and common causes of error
podcast 220 – Thomas Reid on First Principles and Common Sense – Part 2
podcast 219 – Thomas Reid on First Principles and Common Sense – Part 1
“Trinity,” Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
“Trinity,” Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy
“Trinity,” Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy
J.P. Moreland
podcast 265 – What apologists don’t understand about the terms “being” and “Person”
podcast 225 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 2 – Old “Lord” vs. New “Lord”
Collins, Mark: A Commentary (Hermeneia: a Critical and Historical Commentary on the Bible)
Acts 3:22; Deuteronomy 18:15; Matthew 5:43-48; 1 Corinthians 8:4-6; Ephesians 4:4-6; Isaiah 46; Mark 1:1-11
This week’s thinking music is “Procreation” by Little Glass Men.
Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy.
This week's thinking music is "Procreation" by Little Glass Men. freemusicarchive.org/music/Little_Glass_Men/Simplify/Procreation
