khanpadawan | trinities 245 - Response to Branson Part 3 - Dueling Definitions @khanpadawan | Uploaded December 2018 | Updated October 2024, 14 hours ago.
trinities.org/blog/podcast-245-response-to-branson-part-3-dueling-definitions In this episode I review our dueling definitions of the concepts trinitarian and unitarian, explain some criteria for a successful conceptual definition, and argue that Dr. Branson's definitions don't fare well according to these.
Finally, I defend my definitions against his objections.
Dr. Branson’s definitions are:
(TB) A Trinitarian Theology says that:
(1) There are exactly three divine “persons” or individuals. Nevertheless,
(2) There is exactly one God.
(So, the persons can’t all = the One God).
(Presumably each one bears some important relation to the one God or has a “claim” to being called “God,” but our definition won’t settle how that works.)
(UB) A Unitarian Theology says that:
(1) There is exactly one divine “person” or individual, and
(2) There is exactly one God.
(Presumably these will just be identical, or at least “numerically one,” but again we won’t rule on that point in our definition.)
In contrast, in “Tertullian the unitarian,” I say,
A ‘trinitarian’ Christian theology says that (1) there is one God (2) which or who in some sense contains or consists of three ‘persons’, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, (3) who are equally divine, and (4) (1)-(3) are eternally the case.
In contrast, a ‘unitarian’ Christian theology asserts that the (1) there is one God, (2) who is numerically identical with the one Jesus called ‘Father’, (3) and is not numerically identical with anyone else, (4) and (1)-(3) are eternally the case.
Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-EnglishAt a couple of points I bring up trinitarians who seem to hold a Trinity theory on which all the occurrences of "is" in ye olde Trinity shield would be understood as the "is" of identity (numerical sameness, =). It's not a coherent view, of course.
I also discuss this argument, which I attribute to Dr. Branson:
1. "Monarchical trinitarianism" is the view of the Trinity held by the Cappadocian fathers.
2. The true understanding of the Trinity (or the Triad) is what the Cappadocian fathers held.
3. The true understanding of the Trinity (or the Triad) should be called "trinitarian."
4. Therefore, "Monarchical trinitarianism" should be called "trinitarian." (1-3)
Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-245-response-to-branson-part-3-dueling-definitions
David Kelley on How to Evaluate Definitions
podcast 185 – How to tell whether Christians and Muslims worship the same God – Part 1
podcast 186 – How to tell whether Christians and Muslims worship the same God – Part 2
podcast 73 – Is Proverbs 8 about Jesus? Part 3
trinitarian or unitarian? 7 – Origen uncensored
podcast 24 – How to be a Monotheistic Trinitarian
one-self trinitarians
three-self trinitarians
podcast 232 – Trinity Club Orientation
This week's thinking music is "Rescue Me (Instrumental)" by Aussens@iter.
Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy.
trinities.org/blog/podcast-245-response-to-branson-part-3-dueling-definitions In this episode I review our dueling definitions of the concepts trinitarian and unitarian, explain some criteria for a successful conceptual definition, and argue that Dr. Branson's definitions don't fare well according to these.
Finally, I defend my definitions against his objections.
Dr. Branson’s definitions are:
(TB) A Trinitarian Theology says that:
(1) There are exactly three divine “persons” or individuals. Nevertheless,
(2) There is exactly one God.
(So, the persons can’t all = the One God).
(Presumably each one bears some important relation to the one God or has a “claim” to being called “God,” but our definition won’t settle how that works.)
(UB) A Unitarian Theology says that:
(1) There is exactly one divine “person” or individual, and
(2) There is exactly one God.
(Presumably these will just be identical, or at least “numerically one,” but again we won’t rule on that point in our definition.)
In contrast, in “Tertullian the unitarian,” I say,
A ‘trinitarian’ Christian theology says that (1) there is one God (2) which or who in some sense contains or consists of three ‘persons’, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, (3) who are equally divine, and (4) (1)-(3) are eternally the case.
In contrast, a ‘unitarian’ Christian theology asserts that the (1) there is one God, (2) who is numerically identical with the one Jesus called ‘Father’, (3) and is not numerically identical with anyone else, (4) and (1)-(3) are eternally the case.
Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-EnglishAt a couple of points I bring up trinitarians who seem to hold a Trinity theory on which all the occurrences of "is" in ye olde Trinity shield would be understood as the "is" of identity (numerical sameness, =). It's not a coherent view, of course.
I also discuss this argument, which I attribute to Dr. Branson:
1. "Monarchical trinitarianism" is the view of the Trinity held by the Cappadocian fathers.
2. The true understanding of the Trinity (or the Triad) is what the Cappadocian fathers held.
3. The true understanding of the Trinity (or the Triad) should be called "trinitarian."
4. Therefore, "Monarchical trinitarianism" should be called "trinitarian." (1-3)
Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-245-response-to-branson-part-3-dueling-definitions
David Kelley on How to Evaluate Definitions
podcast 185 – How to tell whether Christians and Muslims worship the same God – Part 1
podcast 186 – How to tell whether Christians and Muslims worship the same God – Part 2
podcast 73 – Is Proverbs 8 about Jesus? Part 3
trinitarian or unitarian? 7 – Origen uncensored
podcast 24 – How to be a Monotheistic Trinitarian
one-self trinitarians
three-self trinitarians
podcast 232 – Trinity Club Orientation
This week's thinking music is "Rescue Me (Instrumental)" by Aussens@iter.
Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy.
