khanpadawan | trinities 349 - Craig-Tuggy dialogue on trinitarian vs. unitarian theologies @khanpadawan | Uploaded July 2022 | Updated October 2024, 15 hours ago.
trinities.org/blog/podcast-349-craig-tuggy-dialogue-on-trinitarian-vs-unitarian-theologies On July 11, 2022 I had the privilege of dialoguing for about an hour with Dr. William Lane Craig on Jordan Hampton’s Analytic Christian YouTube channel. Our official topics were (1) Dr. Craig’s Trinity theory and my objections to it, and (2) my unitarian Christian view of the one God, and Dr. Craig’s objections thereto. In this short but spirited exchange, I lodge biblical and philosophical objection to his Trinity theory, and he urges that my views are refuted by rather obvious deity of Christ texts.
Topics include:
What Dr. Craig calls “the biblical doctrine of the Trinity” as opposed to later and more complicated, creedal Trinity theories (he only wants to defend the former)
Dr. Craig’s own model of “the Trinity,” which he now calls “tripersonal theism”
God as “soul” with three sets of cognitive faculties – and Dr. Craig’s claim that this one soul clearly makes the view monotheistic.
The “Persons” of the Trinity as selves and God/the Trinity as not a self.
Dr. Craig’s claim that despite not being a self God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent – which I object entail being a self, and his reply that a being with those qualities need only be “personal.”
His claim that the biblical authors are trinitarians and my objection that it is then baffling why there are no trinitarians in church history from Justin to Eusebius! And my objection that this shows that the NT books do not obviously imply the full deity of Christ, contrary to his assertions.
My objection that one soul with three cognitive faculties each sufficient for personhood would be a single self over-determined to be so, not three persons.
Whether Dr. Craig’s theology requires the “Persons” of the Trinity to be proper parts of it.
Why Dr. Craig calls God the Trinity “he/him” and not “them” or “it” despite his denial that God the Trinity is a self/person.
My observation that there seemingly were no controversies in the New Testament era about whether or not God is multipersonal – which seems to be good evidence that the early Christians were not implying any such claims.
How the New Testament authors portray Jesus as having limits that a divine Person would not have – without embarrassment, warning, qualification, or explanation, e.g. limited knowledge, mortality, being a mediator.
My claim that the NT authors never assert or assume or imply that Christ is the one true God and Dr. Craig’s claim that a few passages do imply or even state that.
My observation that his Persons must be substances, i.e. individual entities, and his doubts about that.
That in the New Testament writings lack any word or phrase which was then understood to refer to a tripersonal god, which seems strong evidence that these authors did not believe in a tripersonal God.
My objection that God did not, in the first century, reveal himself as a Trinity – as evidenced by no one believing it then.
Dr. Craig’s objection to my understanding of New Testament theology that ancient people did con have the concept of numerical identity.
Dr. Craig’s claim that any unitarian will be driven to “extreme views” about the meaning of scriptural texts.
Dr. Craig’s claim that New Testament authors never identify
How a Logos-theory reading of John 1 is not consistent with trinitarianism
In the next episode I’ll share some reflections on the discussion and even give a few corrections.
Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-349-craig-tuggy-dialogue-on-trinitarian-vs-unitarian-theologies
the original video
his Trinity playlist
Dr. Craig’s ministry Reasonable Faith
God and his Son: the logic of the New Testament
podcast 189 – The unfinished business of the Reformation
podcast 70 – The one God and his Son according to John
What John 1 Meant
podcast 248 – How Trinity theories conflict with the Bible
podcast 302 – The Stages of Trinitarian Commitment
On Numerical Sameness / Identity / “Absolute” Identity
a reading of Philippians 2:5-11
“There you go again.”
podcast 224 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 – God and “God” in the Bible
Passages discussed in this episode: John 10:34-36; Philippians 2:5-11; John 17:1-3; Revelation 4-5; 1 John 5:20; John 20:17; John 20:31-32; John 1:1-18; Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1; Hebrews 1:8-9; Psalm 45.
This week’s thinking music is “Green Monster” by Jesse Spillane.
Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy.
This week's thinking music is "Green Monster" by Jesse Spillane. freemusicarchive.org/music/Jesse_Spillane/Sky_Ship/Jesse_Spillane_-_Sky_Ship_-_03_Green_Monster
trinities.org/blog/podcast-349-craig-tuggy-dialogue-on-trinitarian-vs-unitarian-theologies On July 11, 2022 I had the privilege of dialoguing for about an hour with Dr. William Lane Craig on Jordan Hampton’s Analytic Christian YouTube channel. Our official topics were (1) Dr. Craig’s Trinity theory and my objections to it, and (2) my unitarian Christian view of the one God, and Dr. Craig’s objections thereto. In this short but spirited exchange, I lodge biblical and philosophical objection to his Trinity theory, and he urges that my views are refuted by rather obvious deity of Christ texts.
Topics include:
What Dr. Craig calls “the biblical doctrine of the Trinity” as opposed to later and more complicated, creedal Trinity theories (he only wants to defend the former)
Dr. Craig’s own model of “the Trinity,” which he now calls “tripersonal theism”
God as “soul” with three sets of cognitive faculties – and Dr. Craig’s claim that this one soul clearly makes the view monotheistic.
The “Persons” of the Trinity as selves and God/the Trinity as not a self.
Dr. Craig’s claim that despite not being a self God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent – which I object entail being a self, and his reply that a being with those qualities need only be “personal.”
His claim that the biblical authors are trinitarians and my objection that it is then baffling why there are no trinitarians in church history from Justin to Eusebius! And my objection that this shows that the NT books do not obviously imply the full deity of Christ, contrary to his assertions.
My objection that one soul with three cognitive faculties each sufficient for personhood would be a single self over-determined to be so, not three persons.
Whether Dr. Craig’s theology requires the “Persons” of the Trinity to be proper parts of it.
Why Dr. Craig calls God the Trinity “he/him” and not “them” or “it” despite his denial that God the Trinity is a self/person.
My observation that there seemingly were no controversies in the New Testament era about whether or not God is multipersonal – which seems to be good evidence that the early Christians were not implying any such claims.
How the New Testament authors portray Jesus as having limits that a divine Person would not have – without embarrassment, warning, qualification, or explanation, e.g. limited knowledge, mortality, being a mediator.
My claim that the NT authors never assert or assume or imply that Christ is the one true God and Dr. Craig’s claim that a few passages do imply or even state that.
My observation that his Persons must be substances, i.e. individual entities, and his doubts about that.
That in the New Testament writings lack any word or phrase which was then understood to refer to a tripersonal god, which seems strong evidence that these authors did not believe in a tripersonal God.
My objection that God did not, in the first century, reveal himself as a Trinity – as evidenced by no one believing it then.
Dr. Craig’s objection to my understanding of New Testament theology that ancient people did con have the concept of numerical identity.
Dr. Craig’s claim that any unitarian will be driven to “extreme views” about the meaning of scriptural texts.
Dr. Craig’s claim that New Testament authors never identify
How a Logos-theory reading of John 1 is not consistent with trinitarianism
In the next episode I’ll share some reflections on the discussion and even give a few corrections.
Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-349-craig-tuggy-dialogue-on-trinitarian-vs-unitarian-theologies
the original video
his Trinity playlist
Dr. Craig’s ministry Reasonable Faith
God and his Son: the logic of the New Testament
podcast 189 – The unfinished business of the Reformation
podcast 70 – The one God and his Son according to John
What John 1 Meant
podcast 248 – How Trinity theories conflict with the Bible
podcast 302 – The Stages of Trinitarian Commitment
On Numerical Sameness / Identity / “Absolute” Identity
a reading of Philippians 2:5-11
“There you go again.”
podcast 224 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 – God and “God” in the Bible
Passages discussed in this episode: John 10:34-36; Philippians 2:5-11; John 17:1-3; Revelation 4-5; 1 John 5:20; John 20:17; John 20:31-32; John 1:1-18; Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1; Hebrews 1:8-9; Psalm 45.
This week’s thinking music is “Green Monster” by Jesse Spillane.
Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy.
This week's thinking music is "Green Monster" by Jesse Spillane. freemusicarchive.org/music/Jesse_Spillane/Sky_Ship/Jesse_Spillane_-_Sky_Ship_-_03_Green_Monster
