![[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 24: UFOs & High Strangeness: The 6-Layer Model by Vallée & Davis @InquirywithKellyChase](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nDwl0BOSCDA/maxresdefault.jpg)
Uploaded August 2023 | Updated September 2026, 1 day ago
Today’s episode is an important one, because it’s going to lay the groundwork for a lot of the things that we’re going to be discussing moving forward. In the weeks and months to come, this is an episode that I’ll likely be referring back to often.
And that’s because today we’re diving into an article written by two heavyweights of ufology that serves not only as an essential framework to support our understanding of the complexities and nuances of the UFO phenomenon, but that also—in a very real way—helped to lay the foundation for the recent push for UFO disclosure. In short, it’s not only important that we take the time to really understand the ideas presented in this article—but to understand where it fits into the history of modern ufology.
The paper to which I’m referring is Incommensurability, Orthodoxy, and the Physics of High Strangeness: A 6-Layer Model for Anomalous Phenomena written by Jacques Vallée and Eric Davis. Most people will already be very familiar with those names, but just in case they are new to you, you can find links to their bios and other work in the episode brief.
What is so significant about this paper is that it seeks to create a framework by which we can begin to analyze and integrate the parts of UFO encounters that rarely make it into sci-fi media, and even more rarely make it into serious discussions about the phenomenon itself—which is the undeniable and pervasive occurrence of events and effects that are traditionally relegated to the realms of high strangeness and the paranormal.
If there’s nothing else that you take away from this episode it should be this—encounters with UFOs and non-human intelligence are much, much weirder than you've probably been led to believe.
EPISODE BRIEF
uforabbithole.com/podcast/ep-24-ufos-high-strangeness-the-6-layer-model-by-vallee-davis
BECOME A PATRON
patreon.com/uforabbithole
GET THE BOOK
Get a SIGNED COPY: https://uforabbithole.store
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Twitter: twitter.com/ufo_rabbit_hole
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MUSIC
Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson
FEATURED SONG: Jacques Vallée by _ship: on.soundcloud.com/4s8Vy7LqAhEHJQgf7
TIMESTAMPS
00:00:32 Introduction
00:06:53 Problems with the SETI and UAP Paradigms
00:07:25 —SETI & The Assumption of Mediocrity
00:12:19 —Anthropocentric Bias in SETI
00:14:54 —Anthropocentric Bias in Ufology
00:16:27 The Need For A Unified Approach To UAP Studies
00:20:01 The Six Layers of UAP Analysis
00:20:30 —Layer I: Physical
00:21:45 —Layer II: Anti-Physical
00:23:00 —Layer III: Psychological
00:29:53 —Layer IV: Physiological
00:32:19 —Layer V: Psychic
00:34:19 —Layer VI: Cultural
00:37:10 Possible Nature of UAP Technology
00:39:48 The Incommensurability Problem
00:45:42 Semiotics
00:51:35 High Strangeness & The Abduction Problem
00:54:12 Conclusions
00:56:23 Garry Nolan and Talking To Ants
01:00:26 Whitley Strieber and “The Visitors In the Trees”
01:12:42 Jacques Vallée by _ship
Today’s episode is an important one, because it’s going to lay the groundwork for a lot of the things that we’re going to be discussing moving forward. In the weeks and months to come, this is an episode that I’ll likely be referring back to often.
And that’s because today we’re diving into an article written by two heavyweights of ufology that serves not only as an essential framework to support our understanding of the complexities and nuances of the UFO phenomenon, but that also—in a very real way—helped to lay the foundation for the recent push for UFO disclosure. In short, it’s not only important that we take the time to really understand the ideas presented in this article—but to understand where it fits into the history of modern ufology.
The paper to which I’m referring is Incommensurability, Orthodoxy, and the Physics of High Strangeness: A 6-Layer Model for Anomalous Phenomena written by Jacques Vallée and Eric Davis. Most people will already be very familiar with those names, but just in case they are new to you, you can find links to their bios and other work in the episode brief.
What is so significant about this paper is that it seeks to create a framework by which we can begin to analyze and integrate the parts of UFO encounters that rarely make it into sci-fi media, and even more rarely make it into serious discussions about the phenomenon itself—which is the undeniable and pervasive occurrence of events and effects that are traditionally relegated to the realms of high strangeness and the paranormal.
If there’s nothing else that you take away from this episode it should be this—encounters with UFOs and non-human intelligence are much, much weirder than you've probably been led to believe.
EPISODE BRIEF
uforabbithole.com/podcast/ep-24-ufos-high-strangeness-the-6-layer-model-by-vallee-davis
BECOME A PATRON
patreon.com/uforabbithole
GET THE BOOK
Get a SIGNED COPY: https://uforabbithole.store
Get it on Amazon: https://a.co/d/64OSUTa
FOLLOW
Website: uforabbithole.com
Twitter: twitter.com/ufo_rabbit_hole
Facebook: facebook.com/uforabbithole
MUSIC
Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson
FEATURED SONG: Jacques Vallée by _ship: on.soundcloud.com/4s8Vy7LqAhEHJQgf7
TIMESTAMPS
00:00:32 Introduction
00:06:53 Problems with the SETI and UAP Paradigms
00:07:25 —SETI & The Assumption of Mediocrity
00:12:19 —Anthropocentric Bias in SETI
00:14:54 —Anthropocentric Bias in Ufology
00:16:27 The Need For A Unified Approach To UAP Studies
00:20:01 The Six Layers of UAP Analysis
00:20:30 —Layer I: Physical
00:21:45 —Layer II: Anti-Physical
00:23:00 —Layer III: Psychological
00:29:53 —Layer IV: Physiological
00:32:19 —Layer V: Psychic
00:34:19 —Layer VI: Cultural
00:37:10 Possible Nature of UAP Technology
00:39:48 The Incommensurability Problem
00:45:42 Semiotics
00:51:35 High Strangeness & The Abduction Problem
00:54:12 Conclusions
00:56:23 Garry Nolan and Talking To Ants
01:00:26 Whitley Strieber and “The Visitors In the Trees”
01:12:42 Jacques Vallée by _ship
![[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 24: UFOs & High Strangeness: The 6-Layer Model by Vallée & Davis](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nDwl0BOSCDA/mqdefault.jpg "[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 24: UFOs & High Strangeness: The 6-Layer Model by Vallée & Davis
Today’s episode is an important one, because it’s going to lay the groundwork for a lot of the things that we’re going to be discussing moving forward. In the weeks and months to come, this is an episode that I’ll likely be referring back to often.
And that’s because today we’re diving into an article written by two heavyweights of ufology that serves not only as an essential framework to support our understanding of the complexities and nuances of the UFO phenomenon, but that also—in a very real way—helped to lay the foundation for the recent push for UFO disclosure. In short, it’s not only important that we take the time to really understand the ideas presented in this article—but to understand where it fits into the history of modern ufology.
The paper to which I’m referring is Incommensurability, Orthodoxy, and the Physics of High Strangeness: A 6-Layer Model for Anomalous Phenomena written by Jacques Vallée and Eric Davis. Most people will already be very familiar with those names, but just in case they are new to you, you can find links to their bios and other work in the episode brief.
What is so significant about this paper is that it seeks to create a framework by which we can begin to analyze and integrate the parts of UFO encounters that rarely make it into sci-fi media, and even more rarely make it into serious discussions about the phenomenon itself—which is the undeniable and pervasive occurrence of events and effects that are traditionally relegated to the realms of high strangeness and the paranormal.
If there’s nothing else that you take away from this episode it should be this—encounters with UFOs and non-human intelligence are much, much weirder than youve probably been led to believe.
EPISODE BRIEF
https://uforabbithole.com/podcast/ep-24-ufos-high-strangeness-the-6-layer-model-by-vallee-davis/
BECOME A PATRON
https://www.patreon.com/uforabbithole
GET THE BOOK
Get a SIGNED COPY: https://uforabbithole.store
Get it on Amazon: https://a.co/d/64OSUTa
FOLLOW
Website: https://uforabbithole.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ufo_rabbit_hole
Facebook: https://facebook.com/uforabbithole
MUSIC
Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson
FEATURED SONG: Jacques Vallée by _ship: https://on.soundcloud.com/4s8Vy7LqAhEHJQgf7
TIMESTAMPS
00:00:32 Introduction
00:06:53 Problems with the SETI and UAP Paradigms
00:07:25 —SETI & The Assumption of Mediocrity
00:12:19 —Anthropocentric Bias in SETI
00:14:54 —Anthropocentric Bias in Ufology
00:16:27 The Need For A Unified Approach To UAP Studies
00:20:01 The Six Layers of UAP Analysis
00:20:30 —Layer I: Physical
00:21:45 —Layer II: Anti-Physical
00:23:00 —Layer III: Psychological
00:29:53 —Layer IV: Physiological
00:32:19 —Layer V: Psychic
00:34:19 —Layer VI: Cultural
00:37:10 Possible Nature of UAP Technology
00:39:48 The Incommensurability Problem
00:45:42 Semiotics
00:51:35 High Strangeness & The Abduction Problem
00:54:12 Conclusions
00:56:23 Garry Nolan and Talking To Ants
01:00:26 Whitley Strieber and “The Visitors In the Trees”
01:12:42 Jacques Vallée by _ship")
![[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 35: Through The Looking Glass [Pt 1]: My Initiation Into The Anomalous](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nVkGEL5eRiY/mqdefault.jpg "[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 35: Through The Looking Glass [Pt 1]: My Initiation Into The Anomalous
This episode is going to be different, because for the first time I’m going to talk about something that I never thought I’d talk about publicly, which is my own anomalous experience and how it changed everything about my life and directly led to me starting this podcast.
This is the story of my own highly subjective journey. I’m not asking you to believe anything that I’m saying. My own opinion about what happened to me has changed more times than I count, and I have no doubt that it will change again. My purpose in telling this story isn’t to convince you of anything, but rather to explore in as open and unflinching a way as possible, what it’s like to have an anomalous experience, and to use that as a way to discuss the many complex questions that these experiences raise.
EPISODE BRIEF
https://uforabbithole.com/podcast/ep-35-through-the-looking-glass-pt-1-my-initiation-into-the-anomalous/
THE INSTITUTE OF NOETIC SCIENCES
I want to thank the Institute of Noetic Sciences for their collaboration, generosity, and patience with me as I’ve worked on this story. You’ll see in episodes 2 and 3 of this series how exactly they became involved in the strange tale I’m about to tell. In my opinion the work that they are doing is some of the most important work being done in the world and is helping to lay the scaffolding for a new and emergent understanding of the nature of our reality, what it means to be human, and our place in this vast and dazzling cosmos.
I hope that if you aren’t already familiar with IONS that you’ll take some time to explore their mission and their work. And if anything in this series speaks to you and you have a little extra give, please consider making a donation to help support IONS into the future.
To make a gift, visit: https://noetic.org/give.
EPISODE BRIEF
https://uforabbithole.com/podcast/ep-35-through-the-looking-glass-pt-1-my-initiation-into-the-anomalous/
BECOME A PATRON
Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.
Memberships start at just $5/month.
https://patreon.com/uforabbithole
FOLLOW
Website: https://uforabbithole.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ufo_rabbit_hole
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TIMESTAMP
00:05:42 Obsession
00:07:52 Initiation
00:21:55 Aftermath
00:26:06 Redaction
00:31:42 Excavation
00:36:01 Seeking
00:37:41 –Cosmic Illumination
00:46:13 –The Overview Effect
00:50:50 Origins
00:51:14 –God, Angels & Demons
00:59:39 –The Cave & NHIs
01:16:43 –An Emergent Phenomenon
01:21:14 Integration")
![[The UFO Rabbit Hole] An Interview with Dr. Avi Loeb of the Galileo Project](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/o-alS-wUg_A/mqdefault.jpg "[The UFO Rabbit Hole] An Interview with Dr. Avi Loeb of the Galileo Project
GET THE EPISODE BRIEF
https://uforabbithole.com/podcast/an-interview-with-dr-avi-loeb-of-the-galileo-project/
MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
The article written by Avi Loeb & Sean Kirkpatrick:
Physical Constraints on Unidentified Aerial Phenomena: https://lweb.cfa.harvard.edu/~loeb/LK1.pdf
FOLLOW THE GALILEO PROJECT
Website: https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/galileo/home
Twitter: https://twitter.com/GalileoProject1
CONTACT IN THE DESERT
See Dr. Avi Loeb, Graham Hancock, George Noory and many more incredible speakers at Contact in the Desert taking place June 2-4, 2023.
Tickets are on sale now: https://contactinthedesert.com/
BECOME A PATRON
https://patreon.com/uforabbithole
GET THE BOOK
Get a SIGNED COPY: https://uforabbithole.store/products/signed-copy-the-ufo-rabbit-hole-book-one-by-kelly-chase
Get it on Amazon: https://a.co/d/ifiecyE
FOLLOW
Website: uforabbithole.com
Twitter twitter.com/ufo_rabbit_hole
Facebook: facebook.com/uforabbithole
MUSIC
Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson
TIMESTAMP
00:00:30 Intro
00:07:55 Where do you start looking for extraterrestrial life & technology?
00:12:47 How do you retrieve an interstellar object from the ocean floor?
00:15:56 How do you determine if an object came from somewhere outside of the solar system?
00:19:33 How often do objects from outside the solar system come here?
00:22:59 What other promising leads does the Galileo Project have on potential anomalous interstellar objects?
00:28:21 Would the Galileo Project pursue evidence that an anomalous object came from a non-extraterrestrial source?
00:30:46 How the “mothership” article with Sean Kirkpatrick (Director of AARO) came to be and the intention behind it
00:35:26 Dr. Loeb’s thoughts on the recent Senate UAP hearings and Kirkpatrick’s “no credible evidence” statement
00:45:48 Would the Galileo Project ever work with AARO/the government in ways that would subject them to classification and hinder their ability to independently report their findings to the public?
00:48:30 If the Galileo Project does find evidence of extraterrestrial technology, when would that be shared with the public?")
![Cosmosis [Formerly The UFO Rabbit Hole] Live Stream](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/o99DVLSqFyI/mqdefault.jpg "Cosmosis [Formerly The UFO Rabbit Hole] Live Stream
Cosmosis [Formerly The UFO Rabbit Hole] Live Stream")
![[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 25: James Madden [Pt. 3]: The Cave, Morlocks & The Spectacle of Disclosure](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/oZwRuJO6bMU/mqdefault.jpg "[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 25: James Madden [Pt. 3]: The Cave, Morlocks & The Spectacle of Disclosure
EPISODE BRIEF
https://uforabbithole.com/podcast/ep-25-james-madden-pt-3-the-cave-morlocks-the-spectacle-of-disclosure/
BECOME A PATRON
https://www.patreon.com/uforabbithole
GET THE BOOK
Get a SIGNED COPY: https://uforabbithole.store
Get it on Amazon: https://a.co/d/64OSUTa
FOLLOW
Website: https://uforabbithole.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ufo_rabbit_hole
Facebook: https://facebook.com/uforabbithole
MUSIC
Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson")
![[The UFO Rabbit Hole] UFO Disclosure News: An Interview with Christopher Sharp of Liberation Times](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pq_jbjpavrQ/mqdefault.jpg "[The UFO Rabbit Hole] UFO Disclosure News: An Interview with Christopher Sharp of Liberation Times
As predicted, 2023 has already been a massive year for the UFO disclosure movement. As we seemingly gain momentum, and with a fresh round of congressional hearings on UAPs potentially just around the corner, this felt like the perfect moment to dive into the progress made so far.
And there’s no one better for this conversation than Christopher Sharp of the Liberation Times. Chris is an independent journalist hailing from the UK who has consistently been beating the mainstream media to the punch on some of the biggest stories related to UFO disclosure. The nuance and deep investigation that he brings to his work is one of the very few beacons of true journalism in this field. Beyond his work with the Liberation Times, Chris also regularly writes for the Daily Mail.
In this episode Chris shares:
🛸 What hes hearing from his sources about the origins of the mysterious objects shot down in Feb
🛸 The surprising source for the push for disclosure
🛸 What we can expect from upcoming Congressional UFO hearings (and when those might happen)
🛸 The scandal hiding in plain sight that has Congress finally clocking in on the UFO issue
🛸 And more
GO TO EPISODE BRIEF
https://uforabbithole.com/podcast/ufo-disclosure-news-an-interview-with-christopher-sharp-of-liberation-times/
FOLLOW CHRIS SHARP & LIBERATION TIMES
Liberation Times Website: https://www.liberationtimes.com/
Liberation Times Twitter: https://twitter.com/LiberationTimes
Liberation Times Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/LiberationTimes/
Christopher Sharp Twitter: https://twitter.com/ChrisUKSharp
BECOME A PATRON
https://patreon.com/uforabbithole
GET THE BOOK
https://a.co/d/ifiecyE
FOLLOW
Website: https://uforabbithole.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ufo_rabbit_hole
Facebook: http://facebook.com/uforabbithole
MUSIC
Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson")
![[The UFO Rabbit Hole] The Final Episode: Its The End Of The World As We Know It](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rK4wNBzP4bE/mqdefault.jpg "[The UFO Rabbit Hole] The Final Episode: Its The End Of The World As We Know It
All good things must come to an end. And this podcast, and the international community that has sprung up around it, has been a very good thing. It’s been one of the best things in my life. Which is why it’s hard to actually say the words that this episode will be the last episode of The UFO Rabbit Hole.
But before you panic—this isn’t the end. It’s just the beginning.
Tune in to find out about the future of the podcast, and to say good-bye to The UFO Rabbit Hole.
Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:
https://cosmosis.media
TIMESTAMPS
0:00 Introduction and Farewell Announcement
00:59 The Evolution to Cosmosis Podcast
02:29 Introducing Co-Host J. Christopher King
03:17 What to Expect from Cosmosis
04:13 Reflecting on the UFO Rabbit Hole Journey
07:29 The Disclosure Movement
09:25 Controlled Disclosure and Its Implications
27:29 The Complexity of Whistleblowers
34:36 Centering Experiencers
36:48 Rethinking Categories and Hypotheses
41:36 The Real Mystery: Human Potential
43:55 Final Thoughts and Gratitude")
![[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 4: Are UFOs Humans From The Future?](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rPGDLF95cXE/mqdefault.jpg "[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 4: Are UFOs Humans From The Future?
Although the UFO phenomenon tends to be associated with extraterrestrial visitors from other worlds, could the explanation lie closer to home? Could these craft actually be humans from the future?
Since the publishing of his ground-breaking book, In Plain Sight: An Investigation Into UFOs & Impossible Science, acclaimed investigative journalist, Ross Coulthart has begun to open up about a startling claim he says is coming from his contacts at the highest levels of our government — that UFOs are future human technology.
Could this astonishing claim possibly be true? We dive into this question on this weeks episode of The UFO Rabbit Hole Podcast.
Get the full show notes along with photos, videos, declassified documents, source list, bonus materials, & more: bit.ly/ep4notes
Listen to the full interview of Ross Coulthart on Theories of Everything: bit.ly/3pqbobz
Buy In Plain Sight: An Investigation Into UFOs & Impossible Science: https://amzn.to/3KW2Bqf
Follow us on social:
Twitter: bit.ly/ufo-twitter
Facebook: bit.ly/ufo-facebook
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00:00 Introduction
00:01:40 The Future Human Hypothesis
00:03:50 How Will Humans Look In The Future?
00:06:32 What Might Future Humans Be Doing Here?
00:11:04 Music Break
00:12:08 Ross Coulthardt and The Future Human Hypothesis
00:17:28 Problems With The Future Human Hypothesis
00:20:00 Is Time Travel Possible?")
![[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 17: An Interview with Diana Walsh Pasulka](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rnbPV8cfYUY/mqdefault.jpg "[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 17: An Interview with Diana Walsh Pasulka
In this episode, I’m bringing you an interview with one of my personal heroes, Dr. Diana Walsh Paslka. Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka is a professor of religious studies and Chair of the Department of Philosophy and Religion at the University of North Carolina, Wilmington. She holds a bachelor’s from UC Davis, a master’s from Berkeley, and a Ph.D. from Syracuse University. She is the author of Heaven Can Wait: Purgatory in Catholic Devotional and Popular Culture and American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology, which we will be discussing in this interview.
LISTEN TO THESE EPISODES FIRST
If you aren’t already familiar with Diana’s work, you’ll definitely want to start with these two episodes before listening to this interview to get the full context of our conversation.
Ep 11: Nazis & UFOs [Pt. 1]: The Emergence Of UFO Lore: https://bit.ly/ep11-notes
Ep 16: The Sky Calls To Us: The Occult Origins Of The Space Race: https://bit.ly/ep16-notes
BUY DIANA’S BOOKS
American Cosmic: UFO’s, Religion Technology: https://a.co/d/2lJl2Km
Heaven Can Wait: Purgatory In Catholic Devotional And Popular Culture: https://a.co/d/2lJl2Km
GO TO EPISODE BRIEF FOR ALL RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE: https://bit.ly/ep17-notes
BECOME A PATRON: https://patreon.com/uforabbithole
GET THE BOOK: https://amzn.to/4bZSFuw
FOLLOW
Website: https://uforabbithole.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ufo_rabbit_hole
Facebook: https://facebook.com/uforabbithole
MUSIC
Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson
TIMESTAMPS
00:00:30 Intro
00:05:03 How does a scholar of religion end up writing a book about UFOs? [Backstory of American Cosmic]
00:10:57 Why the next big breakthrough in the space program will come from the field of religious studies.
00:14:33 What can we learn from studying Tyler’s protocols?
00:18:14 What should we make of the simplicity of Tyler’s protocols?
00:22:43 What is Tyler communicating with?
00:26:07 What’s going on in the space program?
00:30:25 Civil religion & UFOs
00:34:11 Having a front row seat to the birth of a myth/belief/religion
00:38:15 Diana’s transition from UFO atheist to UFO agnostic
00:43:39 “The Question Concerning Technology” by Martin Heidegger
00:57:36 What does the Monolith in Stanley Kubrick’s 2001: A Space Odyssey tell us about the relationship between media and technology?
01:04:39 Jordan Peele’s Nope and the relationship between media and belief
01:08:32 Society of the Spectacle
01:13:17 Plato’s Cave
01:24:21 Plato’s Republic & the impossibility of justice
01:26:45 Ontological shock & re-entering the cave
01:29:34 The danger of Technology
01:34:48 What to expect from Diana’s new book")
