![[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 17: An Interview with Diana Walsh Pasulka @InquirywithKellyChase](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rnbPV8cfYUY/maxresdefault.jpg)
Uploaded January 2023 | Updated September 2026, 1 day ago
In this episode, I’m bringing you an interview with one of my personal heroes, Dr. Diana Walsh Paslka. Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka is a professor of religious studies and Chair of the Department of Philosophy and Religion at the University of North Carolina, Wilmington. She holds a bachelor’s from UC Davis, a master’s from Berkeley, and a Ph.D. from Syracuse University. She is the author of Heaven Can Wait: Purgatory in Catholic Devotional and Popular Culture and American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology, which we will be discussing in this interview.
LISTEN TO THESE EPISODES FIRST
If you aren’t already familiar with Diana’s work, you’ll definitely want to start with these two episodes before listening to this interview to get the full context of our conversation.
Ep 11: Nazis & UFOs [Pt. 1]: The Emergence Of UFO Lore: bit.ly/ep11-notes
Ep 16: The Sky Calls To Us: The Occult Origins Of The Space Race: bit.ly/ep16-notes
BUY DIANA’S BOOKS
American Cosmic: UFO’s, Religion Technology: https://a.co/d/2lJl2Km
Heaven Can Wait: Purgatory In Catholic Devotional And Popular Culture: https://a.co/d/2lJl2Km
GO TO EPISODE BRIEF FOR ALL RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE: bit.ly/ep17-notes
BECOME A PATRON: patreon.com/uforabbithole
GET THE BOOK: amzn.to/4bZSFuw
FOLLOW
Website: uforabbithole.com
Twitter: twitter.com/ufo_rabbit_hole
Facebook: facebook.com/uforabbithole
MUSIC
Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson
TIMESTAMPS
00:00:30 Intro
00:05:03 How does a scholar of religion end up writing a book about UFOs? [Backstory of American Cosmic]
00:10:57 Why the next big breakthrough in the space program will come from the field of religious studies.
00:14:33 What can we learn from studying Tyler’s protocols?
00:18:14 What should we make of the simplicity of Tyler’s protocols?
00:22:43 What is Tyler communicating with?
00:26:07 What’s going on in the space program?
00:30:25 Civil religion & UFOs
00:34:11 Having a front row seat to the birth of a myth/belief/religion
00:38:15 Diana’s transition from UFO atheist to UFO agnostic
00:43:39 “The Question Concerning Technology” by Martin Heidegger
00:57:36 What does the Monolith in Stanley Kubrick’s 2001: A Space Odyssey tell us about the relationship between media and technology?
01:04:39 Jordan Peele’s Nope and the relationship between media and belief
01:08:32 Society of the Spectacle
01:13:17 Plato’s Cave
01:24:21 Plato’s Republic & the impossibility of justice
01:26:45 Ontological shock & re-entering the cave
01:29:34 The danger of Technology
01:34:48 What to expect from Diana’s new book
In this episode, I’m bringing you an interview with one of my personal heroes, Dr. Diana Walsh Paslka. Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka is a professor of religious studies and Chair of the Department of Philosophy and Religion at the University of North Carolina, Wilmington. She holds a bachelor’s from UC Davis, a master’s from Berkeley, and a Ph.D. from Syracuse University. She is the author of Heaven Can Wait: Purgatory in Catholic Devotional and Popular Culture and American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology, which we will be discussing in this interview.
LISTEN TO THESE EPISODES FIRST
If you aren’t already familiar with Diana’s work, you’ll definitely want to start with these two episodes before listening to this interview to get the full context of our conversation.
Ep 11: Nazis & UFOs [Pt. 1]: The Emergence Of UFO Lore: bit.ly/ep11-notes
Ep 16: The Sky Calls To Us: The Occult Origins Of The Space Race: bit.ly/ep16-notes
BUY DIANA’S BOOKS
American Cosmic: UFO’s, Religion Technology: https://a.co/d/2lJl2Km
Heaven Can Wait: Purgatory In Catholic Devotional And Popular Culture: https://a.co/d/2lJl2Km
GO TO EPISODE BRIEF FOR ALL RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE: bit.ly/ep17-notes
BECOME A PATRON: patreon.com/uforabbithole
GET THE BOOK: amzn.to/4bZSFuw
FOLLOW
Website: uforabbithole.com
Twitter: twitter.com/ufo_rabbit_hole
Facebook: facebook.com/uforabbithole
MUSIC
Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson
TIMESTAMPS
00:00:30 Intro
00:05:03 How does a scholar of religion end up writing a book about UFOs? [Backstory of American Cosmic]
00:10:57 Why the next big breakthrough in the space program will come from the field of religious studies.
00:14:33 What can we learn from studying Tyler’s protocols?
00:18:14 What should we make of the simplicity of Tyler’s protocols?
00:22:43 What is Tyler communicating with?
00:26:07 What’s going on in the space program?
00:30:25 Civil religion & UFOs
00:34:11 Having a front row seat to the birth of a myth/belief/religion
00:38:15 Diana’s transition from UFO atheist to UFO agnostic
00:43:39 “The Question Concerning Technology” by Martin Heidegger
00:57:36 What does the Monolith in Stanley Kubrick’s 2001: A Space Odyssey tell us about the relationship between media and technology?
01:04:39 Jordan Peele’s Nope and the relationship between media and belief
01:08:32 Society of the Spectacle
01:13:17 Plato’s Cave
01:24:21 Plato’s Republic & the impossibility of justice
01:26:45 Ontological shock & re-entering the cave
01:29:34 The danger of Technology
01:34:48 What to expect from Diana’s new book
![[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 17: An Interview with Diana Walsh Pasulka](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rnbPV8cfYUY/mqdefault.jpg "[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 17: An Interview with Diana Walsh Pasulka
In this episode, I’m bringing you an interview with one of my personal heroes, Dr. Diana Walsh Paslka. Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka is a professor of religious studies and Chair of the Department of Philosophy and Religion at the University of North Carolina, Wilmington. She holds a bachelor’s from UC Davis, a master’s from Berkeley, and a Ph.D. from Syracuse University. She is the author of Heaven Can Wait: Purgatory in Catholic Devotional and Popular Culture and American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology, which we will be discussing in this interview.
LISTEN TO THESE EPISODES FIRST
If you aren’t already familiar with Diana’s work, you’ll definitely want to start with these two episodes before listening to this interview to get the full context of our conversation.
Ep 11: Nazis & UFOs [Pt. 1]: The Emergence Of UFO Lore: https://bit.ly/ep11-notes
Ep 16: The Sky Calls To Us: The Occult Origins Of The Space Race: https://bit.ly/ep16-notes
BUY DIANA’S BOOKS
American Cosmic: UFO’s, Religion Technology: https://a.co/d/2lJl2Km
Heaven Can Wait: Purgatory In Catholic Devotional And Popular Culture: https://a.co/d/2lJl2Km
GO TO EPISODE BRIEF FOR ALL RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE: https://bit.ly/ep17-notes
BECOME A PATRON: https://patreon.com/uforabbithole
GET THE BOOK: https://amzn.to/4bZSFuw
FOLLOW
Website: https://uforabbithole.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ufo_rabbit_hole
Facebook: https://facebook.com/uforabbithole
MUSIC
Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson
TIMESTAMPS
00:00:30 Intro
00:05:03 How does a scholar of religion end up writing a book about UFOs? [Backstory of American Cosmic]
00:10:57 Why the next big breakthrough in the space program will come from the field of religious studies.
00:14:33 What can we learn from studying Tyler’s protocols?
00:18:14 What should we make of the simplicity of Tyler’s protocols?
00:22:43 What is Tyler communicating with?
00:26:07 What’s going on in the space program?
00:30:25 Civil religion & UFOs
00:34:11 Having a front row seat to the birth of a myth/belief/religion
00:38:15 Diana’s transition from UFO atheist to UFO agnostic
00:43:39 “The Question Concerning Technology” by Martin Heidegger
00:57:36 What does the Monolith in Stanley Kubrick’s 2001: A Space Odyssey tell us about the relationship between media and technology?
01:04:39 Jordan Peele’s Nope and the relationship between media and belief
01:08:32 Society of the Spectacle
01:13:17 Plato’s Cave
01:24:21 Plato’s Republic & the impossibility of justice
01:26:45 Ontological shock & re-entering the cave
01:29:34 The danger of Technology
01:34:48 What to expect from Diana’s new book")
![[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 6: Mr. Delonge Goes To Washington [Pt 1]](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/sK7bMzgH3rM/mqdefault.jpg "[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 6: Mr. Delonge Goes To Washington [Pt 1]
Hidden in plain sight, right smack dab in the middle of the growing UFO disclosure movement of the past 5 years, is a story so strange, so entirely unexpected that you wouldn’t be blamed for mistaking it for fiction — but it’s true.
While researching the events and cast of characters around the infamous New York Times article and the leaked US Navy videos that confirmed the reality of the UFO phenomenon one unlikely figure stands out among the crowd of former CIA agents, aerospace executives, and other high-ranking officials — pop runk icon, Tom Delonge.
But the notorious UFO enthusiast and former Blink 182 frontman doesn’t just make a cameo in this story — without him, there would likely have been no story to tell.
In part one of this story, we’ll explore how Tom Delonge’s early life and road to stardom set him on a collision course with this important moment in history, the shocking story of how he assembled his team for the To The Stars Academy of Arts & Sciences, and the pivotal role that he played in the events that led to the Pentagon’s stunning admission that UFOs are, in fact, real.
Get the full show notes along with photos, videos, source list, bonus materials, & more: bit.ly/ep6notes
Hear the full interview of Ross Coulthard on Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal: https://youtu.be/JM3kxeU_oDE
Buy Sekret Machines: Gods: Volume 1 of Gods Man & War (Gods, Man & War) by Tom Delonge and Peter Lavenda: https://amzn.to/3rbaIHU
Sekret Machines: Man: Sekret Machines Gods, Man, and War Volume 2 by Tom Delonge and Peter Lavenda: https://amzn.to/3AIMCr9
Sekret Machines Book One: Chasing Shadows by Tom DeLonge & A.J. Hartley: https://amzn.to/3rWgUmc
Sekret Machines Book Two: A Fire Within by Tom DeLonge & A.J. Hartley: https://amzn.to/32KsY1f
Music by Rival Tides: rivaltides.com
Music Break: Vultures! [Instrumental]
Outro: All My Friends Are Stoned [Instrumental]
Follow on Twitter: bit.ly/ufo-twitter
Follow on Facebook: bit.ly/ufo-facebook
Listen on Apple Podcasts: bit.ly/ufo-rabbit-hole
Listen on Google Podcasts: bit.ly/2ZltYr6
Listen on Spotify: bit.ly/uforabbithole
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 Intro Music
00:30 Intro
03:10 Tom Delonge: Early Life
04:45 Tom Delonge: Formation of Blink-182 & Career
11:08 2014: Tom Delonge’s First Encounter With The UFO Phenomenon
13:01 Tom Delonge Leaves Blink-182
13:54 To The Stars
17:36 Tom Delonge Assembles His Advisors
18:00 Music Break
20:11 The Aerospace Executive
24:46 The General
26:47 The CIA
28:46 Has Tom Delonge Lost His Mind?
30:04 The Podesta Emails
33:35 Who Were Tom Delonge’s Secret Advisors?
33:48 Aerospace Executive: Robert F. Weiss
34:15 Major General Michael Carey
34:36 Major General Neil McCasland
35:16 Tom Delonge Is Vindicated
35:56 To The Stars Academy Of Arts & Sciences
37:04 Christopher Mellon, National Security Affairs Advisor
37:38 Steve Justice (SkunkWorks), Aerospace Division Director
38:15 Dr. Hal Puthoff, Co-Founder and VP of Science & Technology
39:10 Jim Semivan (CIA), Co-Founder and VP of Operations
39:39 Luis Elizondo (AATIP), Director of Global Security & Special Programs (AATIP)
41:40 Leaked UFO Videos & The New York Times Article
42:48 Give Tom Delonge His Flowers, Dammit")
![[The UFO Rabbit Hole] The Disclosure Field Guide [Pt 1]: Ontological Shock & Getting Reoriented](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/sUXs_pTlYrQ/mqdefault.jpg "[The UFO Rabbit Hole] The Disclosure Field Guide [Pt 1]: Ontological Shock & Getting Reoriented
In this episode, we explore the complexities of confronting the reality of UFO disclosure. Information that significantly challenges your worldview can be hard to process. In light of UFO whistleblower David Grusch’s recent allegations—that the US government is in possession of non-human craft and bodies—even those within the community who thought that they were ready for these kinds of revelations have found themselves reeling.
In this episode, we discuss ontological shock—what it is, how to cope with it, and how to avoid the major pitfalls. And we work on beginning to resolve our ontological shock but getting ourselves reoriented in a world where nothing is as we once thought it was.
No matter where you are in your journey, I hope this episode offers you something that you can take for the road. And if you know people who are just starting out, or who are finding themselves feeling disoriented right now in ways they can’t identify, this is a great episode to share with them.
GET THE EPISODE BRIEF
https://uforabbithole.com/podcast/the-disclosure-field-guide-pt-1-ontological-shock-getting-reoriented/
GET THE BOOK
Get a SIGNED COPY: https://uforabbithole.store
Get it on Amazon: https://a.co/d/64OSUTa
FOLLOW
Website: https://uforabbithole.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ufo_rabbit_hole
Facebook: https://facebook.com/uforabbithole
MUSIC
Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson
TIMESTAMPS
00:00:30 Introduction
00:05:30 Ontological Shock
00:07:29 The Signs of Ontological Shock
00:08:42 The Pitfalls of Ontological Shock
00:14:07 Resolving Ontological Shock
00:16:47 What Exactly Are We Dealing With?
00:19:00 How Has Perception of the UFO Phenomenon Changed Over Time?
00:19:11 -UFOs: 1947 to Present
00:23:48 -UFOs: Before 1947
00:29:13 What Forces Have Shaped & Influenced The Perception Of UFOs
00:29:44 -Cultural Context
00:36:47 -The Government
00:50:38 -The Media
00:57:47 -The Phenomenon
01:00:25 Who Can You Trust?")
![[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 1: The Pentagon Says That UFOs Are Real](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/todBxV4CytM/mqdefault.jpg "[The UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 1: The Pentagon Says That UFOs Are Real
Welcome to the first episode of The UFO Rabbit Hole Podcast: a podcast about UFOs, consciousness, conspiracies, and high strangeness — hosted by Kelly Chase.
In this episode well discuss the Pentagons stunning admission that UFOs are real and the declassified Navy videos that shocked the world. What is going on here?
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 Introduction
01:28 The UFO Rabbit Hole: Origins
04:15 The Pentagon Says UFOs Are Real
06:52 Declassified UFO Video: Gimbal
07:53 Declassified UFO Video: FLIR
08:20 Declassified UFO Video: Go Fast
09:42 Declassified Navy UFO Videos: What Are They?
10:42 Enter Lue Elizondo, Former Director Of Secret UFO Program, AATIP
11:14 UFOs/UAPs: Lues 5 Observables
12:45 Down The Rabbit Hole")
![[The UFO Rabbit Hole] July 2023 Pre-Hearing Analysis: Where Are The Whistleblowers?](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vPlZoYBBlO0/mqdefault.jpg "[The UFO Rabbit Hole] July 2023 Pre-Hearing Analysis: Where Are The Whistleblowers?
As we look forward to next weeks hearing, were discussing concerns about the witnesses, the stunning allegations from members of Congress, and what we should expect in the week to come.
CORRECTION:
In this episode I incorrectly stated that David Fravor took the TicTac video. That is not true. He was present for the incident and saw the craft, but the video was not taken by him.
GET THE EPISODE BRIEF:
https://uforabbithole.com/podcast/july-2023-pre-hearing-analysis-where-are-the-whistleblowers/
BECOME A PATRON
https://www.patreon.com/uforabbithole
GET THE BOOK
Get a SIGNED COPY: https://uforabbithole.store
Get it on Amazon: https://a.co/d/64OSUTa
FOLLOW
Website: https://uforabbithole.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ufo_rabbit_hole
Facebook: https://facebook.com/uforabbithole
MUSIC
Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson")
![[The UFO Rabbit Hole] An Interview with Mike Clelland: Owls, UFOs, and the Unfathomable Unseen](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/y-98uGc76Gk/mqdefault.jpg "[The UFO Rabbit Hole] An Interview with Mike Clelland: Owls, UFOs, and the Unfathomable Unseen
In this episode, I spoke with author, illustrator, and researcher, Mike Clelland. Mike is the author of several books, two of which we’ll be discussing directly in this episode. The first is The Messengers: Owls, Synchronicity, and the UFO Abductee. The second is his latest release, The Unseen, which is a fiction book that deals with many of the themes of his other work. He also provided the illustrations for the book The Cryptoterrestrials: A Meditation on Indigenous Humanoids and the Aliens Among Us by Mac Tonnies, that we’ll also be discussing in this episode. You can find links to all of his work below.
BOOKS BY MIKE CLELLAND
The Messengers: Owls, Synchronicity and the UFO Abductee: https://a.co/d/ionYzML
The Unseen: https://a.co/d/8fI31Ly
FOLLOW MIKE CLELLAND
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ClellandMike
Website: https://mikeclelland.com/
GET THE EPISODE BRIEF
https://uforabbithole.com/podcast/an-interview-with-mike-clelland-owls-ufos-and-the-unfathomable-unseen
GET THE BOOK
Get a SIGNED COPY: uforabbithole.store
Get it on Amazon: a.co/d/64OSUTa
FOLLOW
Website: uforabbithole.com
Twitter: twitter.com/ufo_rabbit_hole
Facebook: facebook.com/uforabbithole
MUSIC
Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson")
![[UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 34: The Disclosure Field Guide [Pt 2]: Black Budgets & The Secret Space Program](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/yFdPX02QvFg/mqdefault.jpg "[UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 34: The Disclosure Field Guide [Pt 2]: Black Budgets & The Secret Space Program
This episode was guest written by Mark Burchick. To find out more about Mark, click on the episode brief below.
Follow Mark on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MJBurchick
Today we are going to be continuing our Disclosure Field Guide series. As the disclosure narrative continues to unfold, this series seeks to offer a roadmap for those trying to make sense of just what exactly is going on in this strange and confounding moment in our human history.
In the first episode, we talked about how to deal with the ontological shock of recognizing that the world that we live in is not what we were told, and how to get reoriented within that new paradigm. In part two, we’re going to go a step further by diving into the history and structure of the institutionalized secrecy that has kept the reality of the UFO phenomenon hidden in plain sight for decades.
EPISODE BRIEF
https://uforabbithole.com/podcast/ep-34-the-disclosure-field-guide-pt-2-black-budgets-the-secret-space-program/
BECOME A PATRON
https//patreon.com/uforabbithole
Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.
Memberships start at just $5/month.
GET THE BOOK
Get a SIGNED COPY: https://uforabbithole.store
Get it on Amazon: https://a.co/d/64OSUTa
FOLLOW
Website: https://uforabbithole.com
Twitter: twitter.com/ufo_rabbit_hole
Facebook: facebook.com/uforabbithole")
