Uploaded October 2025 | Updated September 2026, 3 weeks ago
What does it take to rewire a nation’s energy system? Can we make the grid cleaner, smarter, and more resilient — without driving up bills? And how will the explosion of AI data centres reshape the future of electricity demand?
This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with John Pettigrew, outgoing CEO of National Grid, for a candid conversation marking the end of his 35-year career. Together they explore the UK’s £60 billion plan to deliver Clean Power by 2030, the race to build transmission for offshore wind, the growing strain from AI-driven electricity demand, and lessons from major outages in Spain and Heathrow.
Pettigrew reflects on the evolving “energy trilemma” — balancing decarbonisation, reliability, and affordability — shares reflections from his 35-year career: what’s changed, what went wrong, and what comes next for the grids powering our clean energy future.
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.
Links and more:
• John’s first appearance on Cleaning Up: youtu.be/1HVcJuO9dNI
• Roger Dennis on Cleaning Up 'The Price of Resilience': youtu.be/CELQT31riDE
• National Grid’s £60 billion plan: nationalgrid.com/gridforgrowth
• National Energy System Operator (NESO): https://www.neso.energy/
• Final report from what happened to the Heathrow substation: https://www.neso.energy/news/final-report-review-north-hyde-substation-outage
Chapters:
00:00 - Coming Up
01:21 - Who Is John Pettigrew
04:46 - What is National Grid
09:30 - Difference Between US & UK
11:12 - What Does NESO do?
15:42 - Spanish Blackouts
19:52 - UK Blackouts
21:30 - Heathrow Shutdown
24:57 - Cost of Resilience
28:30 - The £60bn Plan
33:00 - Is The UK On Track?
36:04 - Pressure From Data Centres
40:30 - EVs, Heat Pumps
46:30 - An Argument About Zonal Pricing
52:30 - The Final 5%
57:30 - Refections on a 35 Year Career
59:04 - Outro
What does it take to rewire a nation’s energy system? Can we make the grid cleaner, smarter, and more resilient — without driving up bills? And how will the explosion of AI data centres reshape the future of electricity demand?
This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with John Pettigrew, outgoing CEO of National Grid, for a candid conversation marking the end of his 35-year career. Together they explore the UK’s £60 billion plan to deliver Clean Power by 2030, the race to build transmission for offshore wind, the growing strain from AI-driven electricity demand, and lessons from major outages in Spain and Heathrow.
Pettigrew reflects on the evolving “energy trilemma” — balancing decarbonisation, reliability, and affordability — shares reflections from his 35-year career: what’s changed, what went wrong, and what comes next for the grids powering our clean energy future.
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.
Links and more:
• John’s first appearance on Cleaning Up: youtu.be/1HVcJuO9dNI
• Roger Dennis on Cleaning Up 'The Price of Resilience': youtu.be/CELQT31riDE
• National Grid’s £60 billion plan: nationalgrid.com/gridforgrowth
• National Energy System Operator (NESO): https://www.neso.energy/
• Final report from what happened to the Heathrow substation: https://www.neso.energy/news/final-report-review-north-hyde-substation-outage
Chapters:
00:00 - Coming Up
01:21 - Who Is John Pettigrew
04:46 - What is National Grid
09:30 - Difference Between US & UK
11:12 - What Does NESO do?
15:42 - Spanish Blackouts
19:52 - UK Blackouts
21:30 - Heathrow Shutdown
24:57 - Cost of Resilience
28:30 - The £60bn Plan
33:00 - Is The UK On Track?
36:04 - Pressure From Data Centres
40:30 - EVs, Heat Pumps
46:30 - An Argument About Zonal Pricing
52:30 - The Final 5%
57:30 - Refections on a 35 Year Career
59:04 - Outro
