Uploaded July 2025 | Updated September 2026, 1 hour ago
If you’ve watched the news lately, the pharmaceutical world is beginning to embrace the use of psychedelic medicines as a safer and more effective means to treat deep emotional challenges. That’s the good news…
However, are people using these ancestral medicines like allopathic medicines to bypass the deeper work they truly need that can create real pathways to personal growth and lasting healing?
Payam, a renowned international master of psychedelic medicines, describes the real and false promises of these medicines and how they can be used wisely to heal the wounded child within all of us this week on Spirit Gym.
Learn more about Payam and his practice at his website at payam.com
For Spirit Gym listeners: Payam is offering a free 30-minute consultation to all Spirit Gym listeners. Complete the form near the bottom of payam.com/retreat and mention that you heard him on this podcast to sign up for this special gift. Plus, if you’re already a Spirit Gym member, look for a special Q&A session with Payam soon! (Special offers from Spirit Gym guests are time-sensitive and at their discretion to redeem after 30 days.)
0:00 Intro
3:37 Payam offers an invocation to begin his conversation with Paul.
6:52 A life of suffering and trauma from a very young age was the emotional baseline for Payam.
10:09 The start to becoming a medical doctor is turning off the human heart machine.
13:06 Treating psychedelics like allopathic medicines.
23:47 Healing the thorn in our soul.
32:52 Insight (synthetic) medicines (ketamine, MDMA) versus organic (spirit) medicines (Huachuma).
42:48 The importance of relational safety.
48:10 “All it takes is a kiss to get there.”
51:30 The false promises of plant medicines.
1:02:09 Payam’s recent lesson from the spirits: Cloud people and earth people.
1:19:16 The mark of a great man and his butterfly effect on the world.
1:23:32 The knives that were Payam’s first teachers.
1:32:30 Medicines Payam uses with his clients.
1:40:18 “The question isn’t not why (drug) addiction but why the pain?”
1:51:13 All of us are wounded children…
Listen to Paul's conversation with Payam and check out the show notes page on our Spirit Gym website at paulchek.com/blog/podcast-episodes/354-plant-medicines-magic-or-doors-to-healing-with-payam
Thanks to our awesome sponsors!
• Tarot For Soul Guidance paulchek.com/events/tarot (join Paul for his seven-week course on how to use the Tarot and introduce you to a spiritual practice that will enhance all aspects of your life)
• Korrect korrectlife.com/spiritgym (check out the newest drink supplement by Aubrey Marcus that helps you burn fat, supports smooth energy without being overstimulated and keeps you hydrated)
• Organifi organifi.com/chek20 (save 20% on your purchase by using the code CHEK20 at checkout)
• Paleovalley paleovalley.com/chek15 (save 15% on your first purchase)
• BIOptimizers bioptimizers.com/spiritgym (save an extra 10% on your purchase by using the code PAUL10 at checkout)
• Wild Pastures wildpastures.com/paulchek (save 20% and free shipping for life plus $15 on your first order)
• Pique Life piquelife.com/paulchek (save up to 20% for life and get a FREE starter kit when you subscribe to one or more of Pique’s amazing beverages!)
We may earn commissions from qualifying purchases using affiliate links.
Music Credit: Meet Your Heroes (444Hz) by Brave as Bears
All Rights Reserved MusicFit Records 2024 at musicfitrecords.com
If you’ve watched the news lately, the pharmaceutical world is beginning to embrace the use of psychedelic medicines as a safer and more effective means to treat deep emotional challenges. That’s the good news…
However, are people using these ancestral medicines like allopathic medicines to bypass the deeper work they truly need that can create real pathways to personal growth and lasting healing?
Payam, a renowned international master of psychedelic medicines, describes the real and false promises of these medicines and how they can be used wisely to heal the wounded child within all of us this week on Spirit Gym.
Learn more about Payam and his practice at his website at payam.com
For Spirit Gym listeners: Payam is offering a free 30-minute consultation to all Spirit Gym listeners. Complete the form near the bottom of payam.com/retreat and mention that you heard him on this podcast to sign up for this special gift. Plus, if you’re already a Spirit Gym member, look for a special Q&A session with Payam soon! (Special offers from Spirit Gym guests are time-sensitive and at their discretion to redeem after 30 days.)
0:00 Intro
3:37 Payam offers an invocation to begin his conversation with Paul.
6:52 A life of suffering and trauma from a very young age was the emotional baseline for Payam.
10:09 The start to becoming a medical doctor is turning off the human heart machine.
13:06 Treating psychedelics like allopathic medicines.
23:47 Healing the thorn in our soul.
32:52 Insight (synthetic) medicines (ketamine, MDMA) versus organic (spirit) medicines (Huachuma).
42:48 The importance of relational safety.
48:10 “All it takes is a kiss to get there.”
51:30 The false promises of plant medicines.
1:02:09 Payam’s recent lesson from the spirits: Cloud people and earth people.
1:19:16 The mark of a great man and his butterfly effect on the world.
1:23:32 The knives that were Payam’s first teachers.
1:32:30 Medicines Payam uses with his clients.
1:40:18 “The question isn’t not why (drug) addiction but why the pain?”
1:51:13 All of us are wounded children…
Listen to Paul's conversation with Payam and check out the show notes page on our Spirit Gym website at paulchek.com/blog/podcast-episodes/354-plant-medicines-magic-or-doors-to-healing-with-payam
Thanks to our awesome sponsors!
• Tarot For Soul Guidance paulchek.com/events/tarot (join Paul for his seven-week course on how to use the Tarot and introduce you to a spiritual practice that will enhance all aspects of your life)
• Korrect korrectlife.com/spiritgym (check out the newest drink supplement by Aubrey Marcus that helps you burn fat, supports smooth energy without being overstimulated and keeps you hydrated)
• Organifi organifi.com/chek20 (save 20% on your purchase by using the code CHEK20 at checkout)
• Paleovalley paleovalley.com/chek15 (save 15% on your first purchase)
• BIOptimizers bioptimizers.com/spiritgym (save an extra 10% on your purchase by using the code PAUL10 at checkout)
• Wild Pastures wildpastures.com/paulchek (save 20% and free shipping for life plus $15 on your first order)
• Pique Life piquelife.com/paulchek (save up to 20% for life and get a FREE starter kit when you subscribe to one or more of Pique’s amazing beverages!)
We may earn commissions from qualifying purchases using affiliate links.
Music Credit: Meet Your Heroes (444Hz) by Brave as Bears
All Rights Reserved MusicFit Records 2024 at musicfitrecords.com
