Bill Schlegel | "Jesus had to be God to Atone for Sin" Really? @billschlegel1 | Uploaded August 2024 | Updated October 2024, 4 minutes ago.
“Jesus had to be God. Jesus had to be God to atone for our sins” Really?
1. The claim is non-biblical, philosophical speculation. This claim is not something argued or presented in the Bible.
2. The Bible says exactly the opposite. The Bible says that Jesus had to be a man, a human being, not just a human nature, to bring about God’s plan of redemption for humanity. God was at work in and through the man Jesus of Nazareth. Who the man Jesus was and is, and what he did, was necessary, sufficient and acceptable to God.
Problems: The claim that Jesus had to be God to atone for sins is not only non-biblical, but it also leads to other, non-biblical, philosophical dead ends.
What deity of Christ folks are claiming is a penal substitution theory of atonement: somebody, or something else, a substitute, had to bear the penalty for my sin.
And that penalty is death. The claim is that instead of me, somebody else had to die for my sin. My sin is worthy of death, so, unless someone pays the death penalty, I will die. If someone else pays the penalty, then I don’t have to die. My sin is worthy of death, so that’s why a death is required for justice. Someone had to pay the death penalty – so instead of me, Jesus, who had to be God, paid that death penalty.
Let’s say I murder someone. The biblical penalty for murder is death. I deserve death. I’ve been convicted in a court of law by jurors and a judge and sentenced to death. But my friend, Mike, right as the judge is about to strike the gavel down and send me off to execution, Mike stands up in the courtroom and shouts “Wait! Stop!”. I’ll pay the penalty for Bill. Kill me instead!”
So, the judge says, “OK, the penalty for this crime is death. If you are willing to pay the penalty, come on over here. Executioners, take the handcuffs off Bill and put them on Mike. Mike, off to the electric chair. Bill, you are free to go!” And everyone in the courtroom nods their head in agreement. That’s fair. The penalty was paid. The judge kept the ancient laws of justice.
Nope. People realize such a tactic is perversion of justice, not a maintenance of justice.
For the “Jesus must be God to pay for sin” folks there is another step in their philosophical, non-biblical speculation. They start thinking: well, maybe one person could give his life to pay the penalty for another (even though they know that biblically – “the person who sins, he shall die” Eze. 18:20, even a father can’t be penalized for the iniquity of his son). But our situation is not just one person for one person. The deity of Christ philosopher thinks, “Whoa, to pay the penalty for all sinners, for millions and billions of sinners, Jesus would have to be eternal God to be enough to do that”.
God died (again, in direct contradiction to the Scriptures). In the Bible God is immortal and does not die. Well, not all of God died. Only one person of God died. So God did but God did not die.
“And death is only the separation of the soul from the body. One person of God, or the soul/spirit of that one person, had taken on a human nature. So the spirit didn’t die, just the human nature.”
Some comments:
1. A person-less human nature (whatever that is) was enough to redeem all the multitude, millions, billion from their sin?
The Trinitarian says that Jesus had to be God to atone for mankind’s sin. But then claim that God did not die, only the human Jesus, or the human nature of Jesus died. So, the very thing the deity of Christ believer claims was necessary for the forgiveness of sin, that God die, did not happen. The deity of Christ believer claims that God had to die, but then turns around and claims that God did not die (only a human nature).
But the Bible says we have been reconciled to God through the death of his Son (Rom. 5: 10). Jesus said, “I was dead” (Rev. 1:18). Not “my human nature died and came to life again”; but, “I was dead”
2. In addition, mainstream Christianity insists that the wages of sin is more than just death – it eternal separation from God, eternal conscious torment. What you deserve for sin is eternal conscious torment. For Jesus to satisfy or take your sin in place of you means Jesus must suffer eternal separation and eternal conscious torment in hell. No one has paid that penalty. No one has paid the penalty mainstream Christianity insists Jesus had to be God to pay.
The truth is, God says to Adam, to man - with rebellion and disobedience, “You will die”. But mankind swallows the satanic lie, “I won’t die”. And even worse, we talk back to God and insist, “No God, you die”.
If your philosophical, theological speculation brings you to the point where you proclaim or insist that God died, rethink think your belief.
Resources:
Jesus had to be a “Mere” Man
youtube.com/watch?v=CtQXFuOXBaA
"Jesus had to be God to atone for our sins." Really? Got a Scripture for that?
landandbible.blogspot.com/2019/01/jesus-had-to-be-god-to-atone-for-our.html
“Jesus had to be God. Jesus had to be God to atone for our sins” Really?
1. The claim is non-biblical, philosophical speculation. This claim is not something argued or presented in the Bible.
2. The Bible says exactly the opposite. The Bible says that Jesus had to be a man, a human being, not just a human nature, to bring about God’s plan of redemption for humanity. God was at work in and through the man Jesus of Nazareth. Who the man Jesus was and is, and what he did, was necessary, sufficient and acceptable to God.
Problems: The claim that Jesus had to be God to atone for sins is not only non-biblical, but it also leads to other, non-biblical, philosophical dead ends.
What deity of Christ folks are claiming is a penal substitution theory of atonement: somebody, or something else, a substitute, had to bear the penalty for my sin.
And that penalty is death. The claim is that instead of me, somebody else had to die for my sin. My sin is worthy of death, so, unless someone pays the death penalty, I will die. If someone else pays the penalty, then I don’t have to die. My sin is worthy of death, so that’s why a death is required for justice. Someone had to pay the death penalty – so instead of me, Jesus, who had to be God, paid that death penalty.
Let’s say I murder someone. The biblical penalty for murder is death. I deserve death. I’ve been convicted in a court of law by jurors and a judge and sentenced to death. But my friend, Mike, right as the judge is about to strike the gavel down and send me off to execution, Mike stands up in the courtroom and shouts “Wait! Stop!”. I’ll pay the penalty for Bill. Kill me instead!”
So, the judge says, “OK, the penalty for this crime is death. If you are willing to pay the penalty, come on over here. Executioners, take the handcuffs off Bill and put them on Mike. Mike, off to the electric chair. Bill, you are free to go!” And everyone in the courtroom nods their head in agreement. That’s fair. The penalty was paid. The judge kept the ancient laws of justice.
Nope. People realize such a tactic is perversion of justice, not a maintenance of justice.
For the “Jesus must be God to pay for sin” folks there is another step in their philosophical, non-biblical speculation. They start thinking: well, maybe one person could give his life to pay the penalty for another (even though they know that biblically – “the person who sins, he shall die” Eze. 18:20, even a father can’t be penalized for the iniquity of his son). But our situation is not just one person for one person. The deity of Christ philosopher thinks, “Whoa, to pay the penalty for all sinners, for millions and billions of sinners, Jesus would have to be eternal God to be enough to do that”.
God died (again, in direct contradiction to the Scriptures). In the Bible God is immortal and does not die. Well, not all of God died. Only one person of God died. So God did but God did not die.
“And death is only the separation of the soul from the body. One person of God, or the soul/spirit of that one person, had taken on a human nature. So the spirit didn’t die, just the human nature.”
Some comments:
1. A person-less human nature (whatever that is) was enough to redeem all the multitude, millions, billion from their sin?
The Trinitarian says that Jesus had to be God to atone for mankind’s sin. But then claim that God did not die, only the human Jesus, or the human nature of Jesus died. So, the very thing the deity of Christ believer claims was necessary for the forgiveness of sin, that God die, did not happen. The deity of Christ believer claims that God had to die, but then turns around and claims that God did not die (only a human nature).
But the Bible says we have been reconciled to God through the death of his Son (Rom. 5: 10). Jesus said, “I was dead” (Rev. 1:18). Not “my human nature died and came to life again”; but, “I was dead”
2. In addition, mainstream Christianity insists that the wages of sin is more than just death – it eternal separation from God, eternal conscious torment. What you deserve for sin is eternal conscious torment. For Jesus to satisfy or take your sin in place of you means Jesus must suffer eternal separation and eternal conscious torment in hell. No one has paid that penalty. No one has paid the penalty mainstream Christianity insists Jesus had to be God to pay.
The truth is, God says to Adam, to man - with rebellion and disobedience, “You will die”. But mankind swallows the satanic lie, “I won’t die”. And even worse, we talk back to God and insist, “No God, you die”.
If your philosophical, theological speculation brings you to the point where you proclaim or insist that God died, rethink think your belief.
Resources:
Jesus had to be a “Mere” Man
youtube.com/watch?v=CtQXFuOXBaA
"Jesus had to be God to atone for our sins." Really? Got a Scripture for that?
landandbible.blogspot.com/2019/01/jesus-had-to-be-god-to-atone-for-our.html
