Uploaded October 2025 | Updated September 2026, 3 weeks ago
In this extended Gist conversation, Mike Pesca interviews Lisa Graves, author of Without Precedent: How Chief Justice Roberts and His Accomplices Rewrote the Constitution and Dismantled Our Rights. They trace the decades-long conservative effort to reshape the Court — from Shelby County v. Holder, which ended federal preclearance for voting laws, to the new doctrine expanding presidential immunity.
Graves calls the current Supreme Court “illegitimate,” arguing that 75 percent of its justices were appointed by Republican presidents and that its rulings systematically empower the right while undermining Congress and the electorate. Pesca presses back: Do rulings like Citizens United or Dobbs constitute a constitutional crisis, or are they just conservative jurisprudence?
The two spar over what “constitutional crisis” really means, whether Roberts’ court emboldened Trump, and the danger — or necessity — of using words like “illegitimate” to describe America’s highest bench.
This interview is from a Full episode of The Gist Podcast, Hosted by Mike Pesca. The audio version contains extra content and Mike's hot takes on trending news.
🎧Listen Here👉open.spotify.com/show/3Q5MaJxR4gS4CwgZUCCYVt
_______________________
Follow us:
INSTAGRAM:
/ pescagist
TWITTER:
https://x.com/PescaGist
https://x.com/pescami
Visit Mike's website:
mikepesca.com
Join the "Pesca Profundities" membership and get access to the Gist List Newsletter:
mikepesca.substack.com
Get a premium edition of the podcast and help support Mike's work:
subscribe.mikepesca.com
_______________________
CREDITS:
Creator & Host:
Mike Pesca
Producer:
Corey Wara
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 The People Behind the Rise of Justice John Roberts - C.Boyden Gray
02:43 Was Roberts' 2005 Confirmation a Strict Party-Line Vote?
06:10 Did Chief Justice Roberts Change, or the Court Around Him?
11:30 Roberts' Public Statements vs. Actions: Smoke Screen?
13:40 Trump Immunity Ruling & The Court's 'Shadow Docket'
18:16 Executive Power & The 'Major Questions Doctrine'
26:46 Shelby County's Impact on Black Voter Turnout
33:55 Court Contradicts Public Opinion: Beyond Dobbs
46:56 Affirmative Action: Radical Break or Mainstream?
55:28 Would Trump Act Differently Without Immunity Ruling?
59:16 Clarence Thomas & Samuel Alito Book Deals: Ethics & Impeachment
01:01:41 Is the Supreme Court Illegitimate?
01:06:10 Are We in a A Constitutional Crisis?
In this extended Gist conversation, Mike Pesca interviews Lisa Graves, author of Without Precedent: How Chief Justice Roberts and His Accomplices Rewrote the Constitution and Dismantled Our Rights. They trace the decades-long conservative effort to reshape the Court — from Shelby County v. Holder, which ended federal preclearance for voting laws, to the new doctrine expanding presidential immunity.
Graves calls the current Supreme Court “illegitimate,” arguing that 75 percent of its justices were appointed by Republican presidents and that its rulings systematically empower the right while undermining Congress and the electorate. Pesca presses back: Do rulings like Citizens United or Dobbs constitute a constitutional crisis, or are they just conservative jurisprudence?
The two spar over what “constitutional crisis” really means, whether Roberts’ court emboldened Trump, and the danger — or necessity — of using words like “illegitimate” to describe America’s highest bench.
This interview is from a Full episode of The Gist Podcast, Hosted by Mike Pesca. The audio version contains extra content and Mike's hot takes on trending news.
🎧Listen Here👉open.spotify.com/show/3Q5MaJxR4gS4CwgZUCCYVt
_______________________
Follow us:
INSTAGRAM:
/ pescagist
TWITTER:
https://x.com/PescaGist
https://x.com/pescami
Visit Mike's website:
mikepesca.com
Join the "Pesca Profundities" membership and get access to the Gist List Newsletter:
mikepesca.substack.com
Get a premium edition of the podcast and help support Mike's work:
subscribe.mikepesca.com
_______________________
CREDITS:
Creator & Host:
Mike Pesca
Producer:
Corey Wara
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 The People Behind the Rise of Justice John Roberts - C.Boyden Gray
02:43 Was Roberts' 2005 Confirmation a Strict Party-Line Vote?
06:10 Did Chief Justice Roberts Change, or the Court Around Him?
11:30 Roberts' Public Statements vs. Actions: Smoke Screen?
13:40 Trump Immunity Ruling & The Court's 'Shadow Docket'
18:16 Executive Power & The 'Major Questions Doctrine'
26:46 Shelby County's Impact on Black Voter Turnout
33:55 Court Contradicts Public Opinion: Beyond Dobbs
46:56 Affirmative Action: Radical Break or Mainstream?
55:28 Would Trump Act Differently Without Immunity Ruling?
59:16 Clarence Thomas & Samuel Alito Book Deals: Ethics & Impeachment
01:01:41 Is the Supreme Court Illegitimate?
01:06:10 Are We in a A Constitutional Crisis?
