Uploaded July 2023 | Updated September 2026, 2 weeks ago
An interview with Susan Grelock, Ph.D, by Bonnie Bright, Ph.D.
Susan Grelock has been busy lately—albeit busy in a way that many of us have probably not contemplated in lives filled with jobs, family, and a daily dose of media, be it via Internet, TV, or on-demand series we can binge-watch at will. Susan has been speaking with artists and biologists who have an interest in wolf conservation. During her research, she got really interested in the Yellowstone-Teton region because it's a focal point for wolf conservation, especially with their fairly successful wolf re-introduction project that is now nearly three decades old. Wolves are also crossing down from Canada and breeding with local populations, so wolves are now “crossing paths with humans” in that area in ways they haven’t done in North America for almost a century. Artists there also seem to be focused on depicting wolves to instigate interest and to spur conversations about them, perhaps in new ways.
Susan took some time to share with me how her journey led her to Yellowstone National Park when wolves entered her life through dreams. As a result of paying attention to her dreams and applying a depth psychological lens, rather than simply looking at the wolf as a dream symbol as psychology might tend to do, she began painting wolves to be able to better understand them and to enter into more of a lived experience of them. In this way, wolves went from a dream animal to something she began experiencing every day in her life. As a result, Susan began to wonder about wolves, their history in California where she lives, and where they had gone for the past 80 to 100 years. At one point she even found herself speaking at a state hearing for wolves; making statements on behalf of others who wanted endangered species status for wolves in California should wolves ever start to return, which now they are.
At one point during our conversation, I wonder how Susan describes just how her work with wolves is related to depth psychology. She offers how, historically, an aspect of social activism was present in the early beginnings of depth psychology, and how, over time, this movement shifted to the psychoanalytic or “consulting room” model. In the Community Psychology, Liberation Psychology, and Ecopsychology (CLE) Specialization of the Depth Psychology Program at Pacifica, community psychology is merged with ecopsychology and depth psychology, emphasizing rootedness and bring depth psychology to bear on cultural issues. This is where the next phase of depth psychology is focused, she believes.
Susan notes that she has learned to hold psychology in that way, informing both her social activism and her lived everyday experience as a human. It is not just the part of the psyche that is more individual and more personal that is involved, she believes, but also the part that really takes it into the collective.
During our conversation, I’m reminded of a remarkable book by archetypal psychologist James Hillman, titled Dream Animals. When animals show up in our dreams, they may be spurring us to not only to take action on behalf of their own species, but also to raise our own consciousness, Susan suggests. She reminds me that the paintings in that book are done by Margot McLean (wife of the late James Hillman) who also writes in the book and who points out that the dream animal is not just the symbol of a fox, but is also the “fox under our porch” and that these dream animals often show up not just for the benefit of the individual but they are also a part of the psyche. Dreams are a place where we interact with those animals, even as they are becoming more and more marginalized on the planet, Susan contends.
We mustn’t become detached from lived experience, Susan believes, citing a specific event she encountered during her research with wolves. She never really expected to see wolves in the wild, she recounts, because after speaking with so many artists, photographers, and film makers, and scientists—and then being in an area of the country where wolves live in packs—she wasn’t sure she even felt the need. But then, last April, she was in Yellowstone and stopped to talk to some wolf watchers, including scientists, standing alongside the road hoping to see wolves in the wild. She wondered what motivated them to spend long hours standing outside in the cold, often with no results.
For more information, visit:
DepthInsights.com
OR
InstituteforSoulCenteredPsychologyAndCoaching.com
An interview with Susan Grelock, Ph.D, by Bonnie Bright, Ph.D.
Susan Grelock has been busy lately—albeit busy in a way that many of us have probably not contemplated in lives filled with jobs, family, and a daily dose of media, be it via Internet, TV, or on-demand series we can binge-watch at will. Susan has been speaking with artists and biologists who have an interest in wolf conservation. During her research, she got really interested in the Yellowstone-Teton region because it's a focal point for wolf conservation, especially with their fairly successful wolf re-introduction project that is now nearly three decades old. Wolves are also crossing down from Canada and breeding with local populations, so wolves are now “crossing paths with humans” in that area in ways they haven’t done in North America for almost a century. Artists there also seem to be focused on depicting wolves to instigate interest and to spur conversations about them, perhaps in new ways.
Susan took some time to share with me how her journey led her to Yellowstone National Park when wolves entered her life through dreams. As a result of paying attention to her dreams and applying a depth psychological lens, rather than simply looking at the wolf as a dream symbol as psychology might tend to do, she began painting wolves to be able to better understand them and to enter into more of a lived experience of them. In this way, wolves went from a dream animal to something she began experiencing every day in her life. As a result, Susan began to wonder about wolves, their history in California where she lives, and where they had gone for the past 80 to 100 years. At one point she even found herself speaking at a state hearing for wolves; making statements on behalf of others who wanted endangered species status for wolves in California should wolves ever start to return, which now they are.
At one point during our conversation, I wonder how Susan describes just how her work with wolves is related to depth psychology. She offers how, historically, an aspect of social activism was present in the early beginnings of depth psychology, and how, over time, this movement shifted to the psychoanalytic or “consulting room” model. In the Community Psychology, Liberation Psychology, and Ecopsychology (CLE) Specialization of the Depth Psychology Program at Pacifica, community psychology is merged with ecopsychology and depth psychology, emphasizing rootedness and bring depth psychology to bear on cultural issues. This is where the next phase of depth psychology is focused, she believes.
Susan notes that she has learned to hold psychology in that way, informing both her social activism and her lived everyday experience as a human. It is not just the part of the psyche that is more individual and more personal that is involved, she believes, but also the part that really takes it into the collective.
During our conversation, I’m reminded of a remarkable book by archetypal psychologist James Hillman, titled Dream Animals. When animals show up in our dreams, they may be spurring us to not only to take action on behalf of their own species, but also to raise our own consciousness, Susan suggests. She reminds me that the paintings in that book are done by Margot McLean (wife of the late James Hillman) who also writes in the book and who points out that the dream animal is not just the symbol of a fox, but is also the “fox under our porch” and that these dream animals often show up not just for the benefit of the individual but they are also a part of the psyche. Dreams are a place where we interact with those animals, even as they are becoming more and more marginalized on the planet, Susan contends.
We mustn’t become detached from lived experience, Susan believes, citing a specific event she encountered during her research with wolves. She never really expected to see wolves in the wild, she recounts, because after speaking with so many artists, photographers, and film makers, and scientists—and then being in an area of the country where wolves live in packs—she wasn’t sure she even felt the need. But then, last April, she was in Yellowstone and stopped to talk to some wolf watchers, including scientists, standing alongside the road hoping to see wolves in the wild. She wondered what motivated them to spend long hours standing outside in the cold, often with no results.
For more information, visit:
DepthInsights.com
OR
InstituteforSoulCenteredPsychologyAndCoaching.com
