khanpadawan | trinities 339 - Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? - Loke vs. Tuggy - Part 1 @khanpadawan | Uploaded December 2021 | Updated October 2024, 14 hours ago.
In August of 2021 I debated Dr. Andrew Loke on the above topic for The Analytic Christian YouTube channel. Dr. Loke makes his case by arguing that a handful of New Testament texts clearly imply the full deity of Jesus, focusing on ones which in his view assert that Jesus was “involved in creation” and so must be “on the creator side of the creator-creature divide.”
In my opening, I argue that New Testament clearly teaches six things about Jesus and God which imply that Jesus is not truly divine, as he must lack certain divine attributes. This first episode includes our opening statements and rebuttals. Next week you’ll hear the rest of the debate.
Which opening case is stronger, and why? And including the rebuttals, in your view, which one of us makes the stronger case? Thanks to Jordan for setting this debate up and being a good moderator, and to Dr. Loke for his goodwill and clear arguments.
Given more time, there is a good bit more I would say about why it’s a mistake to think that the New Testament authors assert, imply, or assume that Jesus is truly and fully divine (see several of the links below). On the other hand, I’m pretty happy with my opening statement here as a summary of why we should not think the New Testament Jesus is divine in the way the one God is divine. Thus, I made it into the following stand-alone video: youtu.be/GJCZervdJEk
Links for this episode: @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-339---does-the-new-testament-teach-that-jesus-is-truly-divine---loke-vs-tuggy---part-1/(opens in a new tab)
Dr. Loke’s publications at Academia.edu
Loke, The Origin of Divine Christology
Loke, A Kryptic Model of the Incarnation
Jordan Hampton’s The Analytic Christian YouTube channel
The original video of this whole debate.
podcast 334 – “Who do you say I am?”
podcast 124 – a challenge to “Jesus is God” apologists
A letter from the Lord Jesus: About God and Me
podcast 264 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 2
podcast 263 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 1
Tuggy and Date, Is Jesus Human and Not Divine?
podcast 259 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 2
podcast 258 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 1
podcast 226 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 3 – post-biblical uses of biblical words, and new words
podcast 225 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 2 – Old “Lord” vs. New “Lord”
podcast 224 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 – God and “God” in the Bible
podcast 145 – ‘Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!
podcast 146 – Jesus as an Exemplar of Faith in the New Testament
podcast 277 – Was Christ tempted in every way?
podcast 227 – Who Should Christians Worship?
a reading of Philippians 2:5-11
This week’s thinking music is “Don’t Die Dog (Instrumental)” by Greg Atkinson.
Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy.
This week's thinking music is "Don't Die Dog (Instrumental)" by Greg Atkinson. freemusicarchive.org/music/Greg_Atkinson/Instrumentals/Dont_Die_Dog_Instrumental
In August of 2021 I debated Dr. Andrew Loke on the above topic for The Analytic Christian YouTube channel. Dr. Loke makes his case by arguing that a handful of New Testament texts clearly imply the full deity of Jesus, focusing on ones which in his view assert that Jesus was “involved in creation” and so must be “on the creator side of the creator-creature divide.”
In my opening, I argue that New Testament clearly teaches six things about Jesus and God which imply that Jesus is not truly divine, as he must lack certain divine attributes. This first episode includes our opening statements and rebuttals. Next week you’ll hear the rest of the debate.
Which opening case is stronger, and why? And including the rebuttals, in your view, which one of us makes the stronger case? Thanks to Jordan for setting this debate up and being a good moderator, and to Dr. Loke for his goodwill and clear arguments.
Given more time, there is a good bit more I would say about why it’s a mistake to think that the New Testament authors assert, imply, or assume that Jesus is truly and fully divine (see several of the links below). On the other hand, I’m pretty happy with my opening statement here as a summary of why we should not think the New Testament Jesus is divine in the way the one God is divine. Thus, I made it into the following stand-alone video: youtu.be/GJCZervdJEk
Links for this episode: @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-339---does-the-new-testament-teach-that-jesus-is-truly-divine---loke-vs-tuggy---part-1/(opens in a new tab)
Dr. Loke’s publications at Academia.edu
Loke, The Origin of Divine Christology
Loke, A Kryptic Model of the Incarnation
Jordan Hampton’s The Analytic Christian YouTube channel
The original video of this whole debate.
podcast 334 – “Who do you say I am?”
podcast 124 – a challenge to “Jesus is God” apologists
A letter from the Lord Jesus: About God and Me
podcast 264 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 2
podcast 263 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 1
Tuggy and Date, Is Jesus Human and Not Divine?
podcast 259 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 2
podcast 258 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 1
podcast 226 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 3 – post-biblical uses of biblical words, and new words
podcast 225 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 2 – Old “Lord” vs. New “Lord”
podcast 224 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 – God and “God” in the Bible
podcast 145 – ‘Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!
podcast 146 – Jesus as an Exemplar of Faith in the New Testament
podcast 277 – Was Christ tempted in every way?
podcast 227 – Who Should Christians Worship?
a reading of Philippians 2:5-11
This week’s thinking music is “Don’t Die Dog (Instrumental)” by Greg Atkinson.
Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy.
This week's thinking music is "Don't Die Dog (Instrumental)" by Greg Atkinson. freemusicarchive.org/music/Greg_Atkinson/Instrumentals/Dont_Die_Dog_Instrumental
