Uploaded August 2026 | Updated September 2026, 2 days ago
When people ask for your opinions about UFOs, are the little green men from The X-Files the first things that pop in your head?
Michael Jawer, author of the upcoming book What UFOs Really Are, believes we should be less focused on aliens flying in the sky and directing our attention on our inner selves and downward to living things anchored on the ground like plants, trees and fungi.
Join Paul and Michael on a wide-ranging conversation that could make you look at reality in a brand-new way this week on Spirit Gym.
Learn more about Michael’s work on his website ( michaeljawer.com/home ) and Linkedin ( linkedin.com/in/michael-jawer-b117821 ).
0:00 Intro
2:20 Michael’s next book, What UFOs Really Are, coming out in December.
3:39 “My myth begins with emotion.”
13:51 Abnormalities like UFOs/UAPs (unidentified anomalous phenomena) are where enigmas often meet stigmas.
17:17 UAPs are forms of sentience, but not here to take over our planet.
26:59 Is lucid dreaming connected to remote viewing?
39:06 “The dimension that I'm most interested in is what's under the surface, or what we don’t see within our own unconsciousness.”
45:45 Is the unconscious poorly understood, incorrectly named or both?
58:00 Does an electron or atom feel like anything?
1:08:37 Michael is directing his attention inward and downward, rather than toward the skies.
1:13:50 C.H. Waddington’s concept of creodes.
1:21:27 UFOs and UAPs shake up our perceptions and invite us to consider viewing reality in different ways.
1:28:16 Paul’s question, What is on the sun?, is answered.
1:36:16 The ancient origins of AI.
1:46:06 “Humanity is in peril because we have archaic emotions, medieval institutions and god-like technology.”
1:48:56 John Lennon’s UFO sighting.
Listen to Paul's conversation with Michael Jawer and check out the show notes page on our Spirit Gym website at paulchek.com/blog/podcast-episodes/412-forget-little-green-men-consider-the-sentient-theory-of-ufos-uaps-with-michael-jawer
Thanks to our awesome sponsors!
• BIOptimizers bioptimizers.com/spiritgym (save an extra 15% on your purchase by using the code PAUL15 at checkout)
• CHEK Institute paul.chekinstitute.com/spiritgym (learn about our Eat, Move and Be Healthy coaching program today!)
• Organifi organifi.com/chek20 (save 20% on your purchase by using the code CHEK20 at checkout)
• Paleovalley paleovalley.com/chek15 (save 15% on your first purchase)
We may earn commissions from qualifying purchases using affiliate links.
Music Credit: Meet Your Heroes (444Hz), Composed, mixed, mastered and produced by Michael RB Schwartz of Brave Bear Music
When people ask for your opinions about UFOs, are the little green men from The X-Files the first things that pop in your head?
Michael Jawer, author of the upcoming book What UFOs Really Are, believes we should be less focused on aliens flying in the sky and directing our attention on our inner selves and downward to living things anchored on the ground like plants, trees and fungi.
Join Paul and Michael on a wide-ranging conversation that could make you look at reality in a brand-new way this week on Spirit Gym.
Learn more about Michael’s work on his website ( michaeljawer.com/home ) and Linkedin ( linkedin.com/in/michael-jawer-b117821 ).
0:00 Intro
2:20 Michael’s next book, What UFOs Really Are, coming out in December.
3:39 “My myth begins with emotion.”
13:51 Abnormalities like UFOs/UAPs (unidentified anomalous phenomena) are where enigmas often meet stigmas.
17:17 UAPs are forms of sentience, but not here to take over our planet.
26:59 Is lucid dreaming connected to remote viewing?
39:06 “The dimension that I'm most interested in is what's under the surface, or what we don’t see within our own unconsciousness.”
45:45 Is the unconscious poorly understood, incorrectly named or both?
58:00 Does an electron or atom feel like anything?
1:08:37 Michael is directing his attention inward and downward, rather than toward the skies.
1:13:50 C.H. Waddington’s concept of creodes.
1:21:27 UFOs and UAPs shake up our perceptions and invite us to consider viewing reality in different ways.
1:28:16 Paul’s question, What is on the sun?, is answered.
1:36:16 The ancient origins of AI.
1:46:06 “Humanity is in peril because we have archaic emotions, medieval institutions and god-like technology.”
1:48:56 John Lennon’s UFO sighting.
Listen to Paul's conversation with Michael Jawer and check out the show notes page on our Spirit Gym website at paulchek.com/blog/podcast-episodes/412-forget-little-green-men-consider-the-sentient-theory-of-ufos-uaps-with-michael-jawer
Thanks to our awesome sponsors!
• BIOptimizers bioptimizers.com/spiritgym (save an extra 15% on your purchase by using the code PAUL15 at checkout)
• CHEK Institute paul.chekinstitute.com/spiritgym (learn about our Eat, Move and Be Healthy coaching program today!)
• Organifi organifi.com/chek20 (save 20% on your purchase by using the code CHEK20 at checkout)
• Paleovalley paleovalley.com/chek15 (save 15% on your first purchase)
We may earn commissions from qualifying purchases using affiliate links.
Music Credit: Meet Your Heroes (444Hz), Composed, mixed, mastered and produced by Michael RB Schwartz of Brave Bear Music
