Uploaded October 2025 | Updated September 2026, 3 days ago
When hate is loud, love cannot afford to whisper. When forces of oppression are on the move, lovers of freedom must respond. When those who seek to replace democracy with theocracy are gaining ground, those who are sworn to preserve and protect democracy must stand our ground.
Jesus, of course, was neither oppressor nor hater nor promoter of theocracy. There are those who claim to speak for him at times, however, who are all of those things. One of the primary forces behind Project 2025 is a political movement called Christian Nationalism. Christian Nationalism speaks not of the teachings of Jesus - feeding the hungry, helping the poor, healing the sick, and kindness to the stranger. Their vision is not about love, but power - specifically a version of power that transgresses basic American Constitutional principles (subjugation of women, primacy of Christianity over other religions, and more).
Progressive Christians are rising up in response, bringing to the theological as well as political sphere a voice that is much needed at this time. Theirs is a Jesus of the Gospels, recognizing love and love alone as the salvation of the world.
My guest in this interview is Brian Recker, author of HELL BENT: How the Fear of Hell Holds Christians Back from a Spirituality of Love. Recker, a former Evangelical pastor, is an influential figure in the Christian Deconstructionist Movement. He explains a journey taken by millions of Christians in America today. who feel strongly that a Jesus of love, not retribution, should guide our hearts.
Website: BrianRecker.com
Substack: BrianRecker.Substack.com
Instagram: @berecker
Subscribe to Marianne's Substack: MarianneWilliamson.Substack.com
Follow Marianne on Instagram: instagram.com/mariannewilliamson
Follow Marianne on Facebook: facebook.com/williamsonmarianne
Follow Marianne on TikTok: tiktok.com/@marwilliamsonofficial
Find Marianne's Interviews on Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-marianne-williamson-podcast/id1536043190
Find Marianne's Interviews on Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/0SogOup2lTWVkGwELXpiBM?si=20050e2c9f0442de
When hate is loud, love cannot afford to whisper. When forces of oppression are on the move, lovers of freedom must respond. When those who seek to replace democracy with theocracy are gaining ground, those who are sworn to preserve and protect democracy must stand our ground.
Jesus, of course, was neither oppressor nor hater nor promoter of theocracy. There are those who claim to speak for him at times, however, who are all of those things. One of the primary forces behind Project 2025 is a political movement called Christian Nationalism. Christian Nationalism speaks not of the teachings of Jesus - feeding the hungry, helping the poor, healing the sick, and kindness to the stranger. Their vision is not about love, but power - specifically a version of power that transgresses basic American Constitutional principles (subjugation of women, primacy of Christianity over other religions, and more).
Progressive Christians are rising up in response, bringing to the theological as well as political sphere a voice that is much needed at this time. Theirs is a Jesus of the Gospels, recognizing love and love alone as the salvation of the world.
My guest in this interview is Brian Recker, author of HELL BENT: How the Fear of Hell Holds Christians Back from a Spirituality of Love. Recker, a former Evangelical pastor, is an influential figure in the Christian Deconstructionist Movement. He explains a journey taken by millions of Christians in America today. who feel strongly that a Jesus of love, not retribution, should guide our hearts.
Website: BrianRecker.com
Substack: BrianRecker.Substack.com
Instagram: @berecker
Subscribe to Marianne's Substack: MarianneWilliamson.Substack.com
Follow Marianne on Instagram: instagram.com/mariannewilliamson
Follow Marianne on Facebook: facebook.com/williamsonmarianne
Follow Marianne on TikTok: tiktok.com/@marwilliamsonofficial
Find Marianne's Interviews on Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-marianne-williamson-podcast/id1536043190
Find Marianne's Interviews on Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/0SogOup2lTWVkGwELXpiBM?si=20050e2c9f0442de
