Uploaded January 2025 | Updated September 2026, 2 weeks ago
From the Radiolab podcast: What if the darkest things are really the brightest?
We fall down the looking glass with Sönke Johnsen, a biologist who finds himself staring at one of the darkest things on the planet. So dark, it’s almost like he’s holding a blackhole in his hands. On his quest to understand how something could possibly be that black, we enter worlds of towering microscopic forests, where gold becomes black, the deep sea meets the moon, and places that are empty suddenly become full.
Corrections/Clarifications:
In this episode, dragonfish are described as having teeth that slide back into their skull; that is the fangtooth fish, not the dragonfish. Though both can be ultra-black.
The fishes described are the darkest things on the planet, but there are some other animals that are equally as dark, including butterflies, wasps, and birds.
Vantablack is no longer the blackest man-made material
EPISODE CREDITS:
Hosted by Molly Webster
Reported by Molly Webster
Produced by Rebecca Laks, Pat Walters and Molly Webster
with help from Becca Bressler
Original music from Vetle Nærø
with mixing help from Jeremy Bloom
Fact-checking by Natalie A. Middleton
and Edited by Pat Walters
Guest: Sönke Johnsen
EPISODE CITATIONS:
Articles -
Sönke Johnsen’s research paper on ultra-black in the wings of butterflies.
(nature.com/articles/s41467-020-15033-1)
A paper by Sönke Johnsen that describes how structure can change color, by showing how clear quartz balls can — when in a random pile — go from clear, to very blue, to white, depending on the size of the individual balls.
(royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsif.2019.0383)
Music -
This episode kicked-off with some music by Norwegian pianist Vetle Nærø. Check him out online.
(youtube.com/watch?v=FhArwubp6QE0)
Videos -
Vantablack, a video about the look and design of the world’s OG darkest man-made substance (get ready to be wowed), and a new material saying it’s darker than Vanta.
(youtube.com/watch?v=EP0rH8IR22c&t=71s)
(sciencealert.com/scientists-just-set-a-new-record-for-the-blackest-material-ever-created)
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Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab today: radiolab.org/the-lab
Photo illustration by Jared Bartman
Video by W. Harry Fortuna
From the Radiolab podcast: What if the darkest things are really the brightest?
We fall down the looking glass with Sönke Johnsen, a biologist who finds himself staring at one of the darkest things on the planet. So dark, it’s almost like he’s holding a blackhole in his hands. On his quest to understand how something could possibly be that black, we enter worlds of towering microscopic forests, where gold becomes black, the deep sea meets the moon, and places that are empty suddenly become full.
Corrections/Clarifications:
In this episode, dragonfish are described as having teeth that slide back into their skull; that is the fangtooth fish, not the dragonfish. Though both can be ultra-black.
The fishes described are the darkest things on the planet, but there are some other animals that are equally as dark, including butterflies, wasps, and birds.
Vantablack is no longer the blackest man-made material
EPISODE CREDITS:
Hosted by Molly Webster
Reported by Molly Webster
Produced by Rebecca Laks, Pat Walters and Molly Webster
with help from Becca Bressler
Original music from Vetle Nærø
with mixing help from Jeremy Bloom
Fact-checking by Natalie A. Middleton
and Edited by Pat Walters
Guest: Sönke Johnsen
EPISODE CITATIONS:
Articles -
Sönke Johnsen’s research paper on ultra-black in the wings of butterflies.
(nature.com/articles/s41467-020-15033-1)
A paper by Sönke Johnsen that describes how structure can change color, by showing how clear quartz balls can — when in a random pile — go from clear, to very blue, to white, depending on the size of the individual balls.
(royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsif.2019.0383)
Music -
This episode kicked-off with some music by Norwegian pianist Vetle Nærø. Check him out online.
(youtube.com/watch?v=FhArwubp6QE0)
Videos -
Vantablack, a video about the look and design of the world’s OG darkest man-made substance (get ready to be wowed), and a new material saying it’s darker than Vanta.
(youtube.com/watch?v=EP0rH8IR22c&t=71s)
(sciencealert.com/scientists-just-set-a-new-record-for-the-blackest-material-ever-created)
🎧 Subscribe to Radiolab wherever you listen to podcasts: lnk.to/radiolab!youtube
🔎 Subscribe to Radiolab on YouTube: bit.ly/3I9KI53
🖋 Subscribe to Radiolab’s Newsletter: radiolab.org/newsletter
🌱 Check out Radiolab's Starter Kit Playlist: bit.ly/3sX8f4P
👍 Like this video ✏️ and leave us a comment!
Follow Radiolab:
Instagram — instagram.com/radiolab
X — https://x.com/Radiolab
Facebook — facebook.com/Radiolab
Threads — threads.net/@radiolab
TikTok — tiktok.com/@radiolab
Our newsletter includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up here: radiolab.org/newsletter
Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab today: radiolab.org/the-lab
Photo illustration by Jared Bartman
Video by W. Harry Fortuna
