Uploaded July 2026 | Updated September 2026, 3 weeks ago
The UK is heavily exposed to global energy markets and has some of the highest electricity prices in Europe. At the same time, vast amounts of heat generated across industry and infrastructure go unused. Whether it should be called "waste" is a matter of debate, but could making better use of the energy we already produce be one of the biggest untapped opportunities in the energy transition?
This week, Michael Liebreich is joined by Jonathan Maxwell, founder and CEO of SDCL, a specialist investment firm focused on energy efficiency. They explore why energy efficiency should be treated as a strategic resource, why “waste” heat could become one of Europe's most overlooked energy resources, and how Europe and the UK can strengthen its energy resilience following renewed tensions in the Strait of Hormuz.
They discuss the economics of gas versus electricity, the rapid growth of AI-driven data centres and their power requirements, and how long-term infrastructure investment can help build a more resilient, affordable and efficient energy system.
Topics covered in this episode:
• The Strait of Hormuz and Europe's energy security
• The UK's energy system and the cost of electrification
• Gas versus electricity pricing
• Debating “waste” heat and energy efficiency
• AI, data centres and growing power demand
• Powering and cooling next-generation infrastructure
• Infrastructure investment and portfolio management
• Europe's energy transition beyond the AI boom
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live
Links:
• Jonathan Maxwell’s bio: linkedin.com/in/jonathan-maxwell-a121a533
• Jonathan on Cleaning Up 2024: youtube.com/watch?v=vN2YWPqBPHk
• Jonathan on Cleaning Up 2023: youtube.com/watch?v=1OTbyOxYUpg
• Jonathan on Cleaning Up 2020: youtube.com/watch?v=Wqrtr2lePM8
• Jonathan’s substack: jonathanmaxwell.substack.com
• The Edge by Jonathan Maxwell: the-edge-book.com/product/the-edge-by-jonathan-maxwell
• SDCL: sdclgroup.com
• Ed Conway on Cleaning Up: youtube.com/watch?v=VhvEExdYeEU
• Robert Dunn on Cleaning Up :youtube.com/watch?v=juAyLAUmU3w
• Subscribe to our newsletter: cleaninguppod.substack.com
Acronyms:
LNG: Liquified Natural Gas
JCPOA: Joint and Comprehensive Plan of Action
CHP: Combined Heat and Power
PUE: Power Usage Effectiveness
CCHP: Combined Cooling Heat and Power
EBITDA: Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortisation
Chapters:
00:00 - Europe's Energy Security
05:11 - Strait of Hormuz Impact
15:39 - Electrifying the UK
23:14 - Gas vs Electricity
28:56 - Waste Heat Debate
32:14 - Powering Data Centres
42:20 - AI Investment
46:42 - Cooling Data Centres
52:16 - Managing Energy Assets
01:06:47 - Outro
The UK is heavily exposed to global energy markets and has some of the highest electricity prices in Europe. At the same time, vast amounts of heat generated across industry and infrastructure go unused. Whether it should be called "waste" is a matter of debate, but could making better use of the energy we already produce be one of the biggest untapped opportunities in the energy transition?
This week, Michael Liebreich is joined by Jonathan Maxwell, founder and CEO of SDCL, a specialist investment firm focused on energy efficiency. They explore why energy efficiency should be treated as a strategic resource, why “waste” heat could become one of Europe's most overlooked energy resources, and how Europe and the UK can strengthen its energy resilience following renewed tensions in the Strait of Hormuz.
They discuss the economics of gas versus electricity, the rapid growth of AI-driven data centres and their power requirements, and how long-term infrastructure investment can help build a more resilient, affordable and efficient energy system.
Topics covered in this episode:
• The Strait of Hormuz and Europe's energy security
• The UK's energy system and the cost of electrification
• Gas versus electricity pricing
• Debating “waste” heat and energy efficiency
• AI, data centres and growing power demand
• Powering and cooling next-generation infrastructure
• Infrastructure investment and portfolio management
• Europe's energy transition beyond the AI boom
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live
Links:
• Jonathan Maxwell’s bio: linkedin.com/in/jonathan-maxwell-a121a533
• Jonathan on Cleaning Up 2024: youtube.com/watch?v=vN2YWPqBPHk
• Jonathan on Cleaning Up 2023: youtube.com/watch?v=1OTbyOxYUpg
• Jonathan on Cleaning Up 2020: youtube.com/watch?v=Wqrtr2lePM8
• Jonathan’s substack: jonathanmaxwell.substack.com
• The Edge by Jonathan Maxwell: the-edge-book.com/product/the-edge-by-jonathan-maxwell
• SDCL: sdclgroup.com
• Ed Conway on Cleaning Up: youtube.com/watch?v=VhvEExdYeEU
• Robert Dunn on Cleaning Up :youtube.com/watch?v=juAyLAUmU3w
• Subscribe to our newsletter: cleaninguppod.substack.com
Acronyms:
LNG: Liquified Natural Gas
JCPOA: Joint and Comprehensive Plan of Action
CHP: Combined Heat and Power
PUE: Power Usage Effectiveness
CCHP: Combined Cooling Heat and Power
EBITDA: Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortisation
Chapters:
00:00 - Europe's Energy Security
05:11 - Strait of Hormuz Impact
15:39 - Electrifying the UK
23:14 - Gas vs Electricity
28:56 - Waste Heat Debate
32:14 - Powering Data Centres
42:20 - AI Investment
46:42 - Cooling Data Centres
52:16 - Managing Energy Assets
01:06:47 - Outro
