Uploaded September 2026 | Updated September 2026, 6 days ago

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AI could be bigger than electricity.

Anastasios Angelopoulos is seeing that shift firsthand, with Arena ranking 500+ models and tracking roughly 10 new releases every week.

On Grit, he explains why there may never be one dominant AI model and why the API layer may be less sticky than people think.

Guest: Anastasios Angelopoulos, Co-Founder and CEO of Arena

Connect with Anastasios Angelopoulos
X: https://x.com/ml_angelopoulos
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/ml-angelopoulos

Connect with Mamoon
X: https://x.com/mamoonha
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/mamoonha

Connect with Joubin:
X: https://x.com/Joubinmir
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/joubin-mirzadegan-66186854

Email: grit@kleinerperkins.com

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linkedin.com/company/kpgrit

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​Learn more about Kleiner Perkins: kleinerperkins.com

(00:00) Trailer
(01:04) Introduction
(01:41) The basement origins of Chatbot Arena
(12:42) The phase shift between closed and open models
(23:01) Arena's $100 million evaluation business
(29:37) Steelmanning AI as bigger than electricity
(39:12) Betting against API lock-in
(48:12) Worst day at the company during the seed round
(55:04) Arena's priorities: agents and enterprise
(58:28) What grit means