Making Space for the Resurrection of Art (Makers and Mystics) @JonathanPageau

Uploaded February 2026 | Updated September 2026, 2 weeks ago

In this conversation, I sit down with Stephen Roach on the Makers and Mystics podcast to explore why our stories feel exhausted — and what that reveals about our cultural moment. We talk about the end of the post–World War II narrative, the collapse of the hero (and even the anti-hero), and how storytelling has drifted. We also discuss fairy tales, monsters, AI, and the future of art.
Let me know what you think in the comments and come join us at the Breath and the Clay conference, a creative arts gathering in Winston Salem, NC March 20-22, 2026: thebreathandtheclay.com

Listen to this episode on The Symbolic World podcast (and please review the podcast - it helps a lot):
- Spotify: open.spotify.com/episode/2RkPAmRS76SX5yl4d7l5ms?si=CWpNcYlfTZqwkZogIvWRwA
- Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/437-making-space-for-the-resurrection-of-art/id1386867488?i=1000751732532

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Another opportunity to come together and meet is the Symbolic World Summit 2026! Speakers include Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dn. Seraphim Rohlin, myself, and others.
Date: May 14-16
Place: Broadview Heights, OH
Buy your tickets now and get $50 off with the early bird sale. Don't miss out: symbolicworldsummit.com
Hope to see you there.
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🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau

Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:21 - Intro music
01:47 - Introduction
03:08 - Narrative exhaustion
04:38 - End of the WW2 narrative
08:40 - Fairy tales
11:09 - Jonathan's retelling
13:17 - Art and ideology
17:41 - Complexity in religious art
21:32 - Trust in the audience
24:33 - Participation in art
28:27 - Distorted retellings
32:30 - Resistance of tyranny
35:28 - Identity and form
37:16 - Limitation and contemporary art
41:34 - AI art
44:11 - Human connection
45:30 - Making space

Our website designers: resonancehq.io
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: matthewwilkinson.net

This episode on the Makers and Mystics podcast: youtu.be/zvq-lGPoZ1U?si=AVG0r43piH86qPvf

Making Space for the Resurrection of Art (Makers and Mystics)

$Genesis: Symbolism in the Creation Story This is a talk I did a few years ago for the Jung Society of Montreal. In it I explore the creation story in Genesis not just as myth, but as a fractal map of how identity, being, and purpose function. In breaking down the symbolism I also make a case for why intelligence isn’t an accident, why rituals matter, and why participation of intelligent beings is foundational to reality. In the Q&A section we touch on group identity, exclusion, dreams, and the meaning of the Last Judgment among other topics. I hope this lecture gives you a sense of the tone and depth of our upcoming Symbolism Masterclass. If you want to learn more, register today. https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/symbolism-masterclass SYMBOLISM MASTERCLASS Join me this April for the Symbolism Masterclass, a 6-week deep dive into the essentials of symbolic thinking. Over 18 immersive hours, Ill guide you through the framework behind everything Ive explored in 500+ videos—from heaven and earth to dragons, fairies, kings, conspiracies, Darwin, the Bible, and beyond. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/symbolism-masterclass 🗓 Dates: Live classes every Wednesday at 1-4 PM Central / 2-5 PM Eastern time: 4/23, 4/30, 5/7, 5/14, 5/21, 5/28 ⏰ Class Length: 3 hours each session 💰 Cost: $175 (Patrons at the Involved tier or higher qualify for 10% off) Join us for the ORTHODOX ARTS FESTIVAL, learn more here: https://www.orthodoxartsfestivaldfw.com/ Original video published by Jordan Peterson: https://youtu.be/ZQ43i5nKuZk?si=XB-bgj9VMc0NxBdT Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction 02:01 - Intro music 02:26 - Observing the observer 08:06 - Ritual and a return to ancient thinking 13:58 - Ritual in groups 21:34 - The argument 27:49 - The start of Genesis 36:39 - And God said 42:06 - Vegetation 44:30 - The sun, moon, and stars 45:49 - Creatures of the sea 49:32 - Animals 51:57 - The creation of man 56:28 - Genesis 2 59:43 - The center of the world 06:42 - Iconographic examples 12:39 - Questions from JBP 18:22 - Q: Elaborate on what you mean with above and below 20:15 - Q: Are people who try to tame wild animals violating the pattern you pointed out? 21:51 - Q: How sure are you of the heaven and earth distinction? 25:36 - Q: Whats the meaning of when God says man is very good and everything else good? 30:03 - Comment about Jung 31:24 - Q: How did Darwin bring Plato back? 37:03 - Q: How would you work with exclusion / inclusion patterns in these times? 48:51 - Q: Whats the intelligence of dreams? 51:45 - Q: If the teleological patterns of being constitute heaven, what is the abode of the human soul? 💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com 🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/$

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