Uploaded April 2026 | Updated September 2026, 2 weeks ago

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*Get our Guide to Rank #1 on Google in 2026:* clickhubspot.com/sxu0
If you're a marketer, content creator, or founder trying to rank on Google, ChatGPT, or Perplexity, this episode is the playbook. Kipp Bodnar (CMO, HubSpot) breaks down the 6-step framework that separates content that ranks from the AI slop flooding the internet - then grades a real ranking page live to show you exactly how to beat it.

You'll learn the framework Google itself is using to separate commodity content from non-commodity content, why "expert takes" and "proprietary data" are the only things that survive AI search, and the specific writing rule that 10x's any blog post (replace every adjective with a number, name, or date).

🎁 FREE TOOL: Grade your blog post, landing page, or newsletter against the full 6-step framework and get a 1–100 score with specific recommendations.

📌 WHAT WE COVER:
→ Why "commodity content" is dying (and what's replacing it)
→ The Danny Sullivan framework from a private Google SEO event
→ Checkpoint 1: Proprietary evidence (the running shoe example)
→ Checkpoint 2: Firsthand experience ("I did, I saw, I built")
→ Checkpoint 3: Specificity — replacing every adjective with a number, name, or date
→ Checkpoint 4: Point of view — why "I won't" beats "you should consider"
→ Checkpoint 5: The LLM test — could ChatGPT have written this?
→ Checkpoint 6: Information gain — Google your own headline test
→ LIVE DEMO: Grading the #1 Google result for "compare countertops" (it scored 9/100)
→ The exact recommendations the grader gave to fix it
→ How to use this framework to outrank competitors who got there with AI

🎙️ Host: Kipp Bodnar (CMO, HubSpot)

⏱️ CHAPTERS:
00:00 — The 9/100 Score That Should Worry Every Marketer
01:00 — How AI Slop Broke Google (and Danny Sullivan's Response)
02:00 — Commodity vs Non-Commodity Content: The Core Distinction
03:30 — The 6 Checkpoints (Quick Overview)
04:30 — Checkpoint 1: Proprietary Evidence (Running Shoe Example)
06:00 — Checkpoint 2: Firsthand Experience ("I Did, I Saw, I Built")
07:00 — Checkpoint 3: Specificity — The Adjective Replacement Test
09:00 — Checkpoint 4: Point of View — Why You Have to Take a Stand
10:30 — Checkpoint 5: The LLM Test — Could ChatGPT Write This?
11:30 — Checkpoint 6: Information Gain — The Google Top 3 Test
13:00 — LIVE DEMO: Grading the #1 Result on Google for "Countertops"
14:30 — The 9/100 Score and Why It's a Massive Opportunity for You
15:30 — The 5 Specific Fixes the Grader Recommended
17:00 — Get the Free Grader and Full Framework

📺 Subscribe to Marketing Against the Grain for weekly tactical playbooks on how marketing actually works in the AI era.

#AISEO #ContentMarketing #GoogleRanking #AIContent #MarketingStrategy #ContentStrategy #SEO2026 #AIMarketing #HubSpot #MarketingAgainstTheGrain #ChatGPTSEO #AnswerEngineOptimization

Host Links:
📲Kipp Bodnar, twitter.com/kippbodnar
📲Kieran Flanagan, twitter.com/searchbrat

‘Marketing Against The Grain’ is a HubSpot Original Podcast // Brought to you by The HubSpot Podcast Network // Produced by Darren Clarke.

About the Show
Kipp Bodnar, HubSpot’s CMO and Kieran Flanagan Hubspot's SVP of Marketing, lead you down the rabbit hole of marketing trends, growth tactics and innovation. On the way you’ll pick up undiscovered strategies to give you that slight edge for success. These are not your typical twitter thread regurgitated marketing tactics that everyone is doing. These are new methods, with unfiltered examination of successful fresh ideas.