Uploaded January 2026 | Updated September 2026, 2 weeks ago
Welcome back to our Joseph Smith Podcast series with historian Dr. John Turner!
This is Episode 29, where we dive into Chapter 24, titled “Upper Rooms,” from John Turner’s new book Joseph Smith: The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet.
In this episode, we focus on Nauvoo in 1842 –a pivotal year when Freemasonry, the Relief Society, secrecy, and the earliest forms of the Nauvoo Endowment ceremony all intersect.
The central question we wrestle with is this: To what extent did Freemasonry shape Joseph Smith’s use of secrecy –and was it intended to protect his authority and reputation?
We explore the anti-Masonic climate of early America and the murder of William Morgan, why the Book of Mormon was once read as an “anti-Masonic Bible,” Joseph Smith’s embrace of Freemasonry, the founding of the Nauvoo Masonic Lodge, Parallels between Masonic rituals and the original Nauvoo Endowment, the secret oaths, handshakes, signs, tokens, and penalties, and Joseph Smith’s evolving theology around power and exaltation.
This conversation is historically grounded, candid, and essential for anyone trying to understand how Mormon temple theology developed –and why it still matters today!
Show notes can be found on the Mormon Stories blog here: mormonstories.org/freemasonry-the-early-nauvoo-endowment-ceremony
Timecodes:
00:00:00 Introduction to this series and the topics for today
0:04:59 Jumping into Chapter 24
00:08:42 Master Mahan (Master Mason)
00:09:47 The Book of Mormon itself is anti-Masonic
00:12:43 What aspects of the Book of Mormon are anti-Masonic?
00:28:26 John Dehlin in the MTC learning about Masonry
00:39:22 The start of the Masonic Lodge in Nauvoo, Illinois
00:45:35 The Masonic Temple ritual
00:54:40 The Masonic handshakes with the thumb on the knuckles, etc.
00:58:46 The original Nauvoo endowment
01:02:04 What happened in the upper rooms
01:07:11 Joseph is granting his followers a pathway to Godlike exaltation
01:13:37 Women were NOT involved in the Nauvoo Endowment when it started
01:22:07 Why weren’t we told this?
01:26:36 Change is constant in religion
01:30:45 The issue of remix
01:47:46 What did the fellow Masons think about Joseph performing brickalodge?
01:52:51 Joseph Smith’s final words were a cry for help for the Masons
01:54:03 What we will cover next episode
01:57:18 Closing remarks
___________________
At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.
Our overall mission is to:
1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology
2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis
3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions
🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today
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Our Platforms:
🌐Mormon Stories Blog: mormonstories.org/episodes
🎙️Patreon: patreon.com/mormonstories
✳️Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/4sDzk7dRjODTSEqzZKZJzk?si=148b0efc1ccc4404&nd=1
🍎Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mormon-stories-lds/id312094772
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Contact us:
📧 MormonStories@gmail.com
📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117
Welcome back to our Joseph Smith Podcast series with historian Dr. John Turner!
This is Episode 29, where we dive into Chapter 24, titled “Upper Rooms,” from John Turner’s new book Joseph Smith: The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet.
In this episode, we focus on Nauvoo in 1842 –a pivotal year when Freemasonry, the Relief Society, secrecy, and the earliest forms of the Nauvoo Endowment ceremony all intersect.
The central question we wrestle with is this: To what extent did Freemasonry shape Joseph Smith’s use of secrecy –and was it intended to protect his authority and reputation?
We explore the anti-Masonic climate of early America and the murder of William Morgan, why the Book of Mormon was once read as an “anti-Masonic Bible,” Joseph Smith’s embrace of Freemasonry, the founding of the Nauvoo Masonic Lodge, Parallels between Masonic rituals and the original Nauvoo Endowment, the secret oaths, handshakes, signs, tokens, and penalties, and Joseph Smith’s evolving theology around power and exaltation.
This conversation is historically grounded, candid, and essential for anyone trying to understand how Mormon temple theology developed –and why it still matters today!
Show notes can be found on the Mormon Stories blog here: mormonstories.org/freemasonry-the-early-nauvoo-endowment-ceremony
Timecodes:
00:00:00 Introduction to this series and the topics for today
0:04:59 Jumping into Chapter 24
00:08:42 Master Mahan (Master Mason)
00:09:47 The Book of Mormon itself is anti-Masonic
00:12:43 What aspects of the Book of Mormon are anti-Masonic?
00:28:26 John Dehlin in the MTC learning about Masonry
00:39:22 The start of the Masonic Lodge in Nauvoo, Illinois
00:45:35 The Masonic Temple ritual
00:54:40 The Masonic handshakes with the thumb on the knuckles, etc.
00:58:46 The original Nauvoo endowment
01:02:04 What happened in the upper rooms
01:07:11 Joseph is granting his followers a pathway to Godlike exaltation
01:13:37 Women were NOT involved in the Nauvoo Endowment when it started
01:22:07 Why weren’t we told this?
01:26:36 Change is constant in religion
01:30:45 The issue of remix
01:47:46 What did the fellow Masons think about Joseph performing brickalodge?
01:52:51 Joseph Smith’s final words were a cry for help for the Masons
01:54:03 What we will cover next episode
01:57:18 Closing remarks
___________________
At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.
Our overall mission is to:
1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology
2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis
3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions
🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today
One-time or recurring donations: donorbox.org/mormon-stories?default_interval=m
Patreon: patreon.com/mormonstories
Venmo: account.venmo.com/u/mormonstories
Paypal: paypal.me/mormonstories
Join this channel to get access to perks:
youtube.com/channel/UCx6OgmoqJbOVRq-Lv1P7SzA/join
Our Platforms:
🌐Mormon Stories Blog: mormonstories.org/episodes
🎙️Patreon: patreon.com/mormonstories
✳️Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/4sDzk7dRjODTSEqzZKZJzk?si=148b0efc1ccc4404&nd=1
🍎Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mormon-stories-lds/id312094772
🖼️Instagram: instagram.com/mormstories
📱TikTok: tiktok.com/@mormonstoriespodcast
🎮Discord: discord.com/invite/kuX5p6yyjF
Contact us:
📧 MormonStories@gmail.com
📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117
