Uploaded February 2025 | Updated September 2026, 2 weeks ago
In this episode, Jeffrey and psychoanalyst Adam Ayala delve into the intricate dynamics of empathy and emotional presence, drawing insights from John Madonna’s work and tactical empathy techniques. They explore the fine lines between sympathy, empathy, and pity, while unpacking complex concepts like transference and soul murder.
The conversation offers practical and thought-provoking guidance on navigating the promise and peril of empathy in both personal and professional contexts.
Thank you for listening.
*EPISODE LINKS:*
Buy Never Split The Difference: amzn.to/4hFEgom
Buy Emotional Presence in Psychoanalysis: amzn.to/3EBE5we
By using these links, we earn commission from qualifying purchases.
*SHOW LINKS:*
Subscribe: youtube.com/@JeffreyPvanLeeuwen
Support the Show: patreon.com/JeffreyPvanLeeuwen
Listen on Apple Podcast: apple.co/4lLpEXA
Listen on Spotify: spoti.fi/42kcOYy
Follow on X: https://x.com/RealJvanLeeuwen
Follow on Instagram: instagram.com/jeffreypvanleeuwen
Follow on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jeffreypvanleeuwen
YouTube Playlist: youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOv56NTjNAeK7cUVamIPioSCsr06-vSGG
*ADAM AYALA LINKS:*
Find Adam Ayala on Rumble: rumble.com/user/HereticTherapist
Listen to Adam Ayala on Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/13Uaj9XWZMtwpjpVTcwOKt?si=8183adcdda0d4e98
Book Adam Ayala: wvctherapy.com
*OUTLINE:*
00:00 Introduction
02:40 Emotional Presence & Empathy
13:59 Sympathy vs. Empathy
31:17 Misguided Empathy & Soul Murder
45:16 Balancing Assumptions & Inquiry
01:18:47 Philosophy in Psychoanalytic Training
01:28:31 Genuine Empathy vs. Manipulation
01:46:24 Suffering Well
01:50:03 Modern Perspectives on Freud & Jung
02:03:18 Final Thoughts & Outro
*CONTACT LINKS:*
To come on the podcast, share feedback, ask a question, or reach out for any reason, visit: podcast.jeffreyvanleeuwen.com/p/contact
This episode has been co-produced by Kate van Leeuwen.
In this episode, Jeffrey and psychoanalyst Adam Ayala delve into the intricate dynamics of empathy and emotional presence, drawing insights from John Madonna’s work and tactical empathy techniques. They explore the fine lines between sympathy, empathy, and pity, while unpacking complex concepts like transference and soul murder.
The conversation offers practical and thought-provoking guidance on navigating the promise and peril of empathy in both personal and professional contexts.
Thank you for listening.
*EPISODE LINKS:*
Buy Never Split The Difference: amzn.to/4hFEgom
Buy Emotional Presence in Psychoanalysis: amzn.to/3EBE5we
By using these links, we earn commission from qualifying purchases.
*SHOW LINKS:*
Subscribe: youtube.com/@JeffreyPvanLeeuwen
Support the Show: patreon.com/JeffreyPvanLeeuwen
Listen on Apple Podcast: apple.co/4lLpEXA
Listen on Spotify: spoti.fi/42kcOYy
Follow on X: https://x.com/RealJvanLeeuwen
Follow on Instagram: instagram.com/jeffreypvanleeuwen
Follow on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jeffreypvanleeuwen
YouTube Playlist: youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOv56NTjNAeK7cUVamIPioSCsr06-vSGG
*ADAM AYALA LINKS:*
Find Adam Ayala on Rumble: rumble.com/user/HereticTherapist
Listen to Adam Ayala on Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/13Uaj9XWZMtwpjpVTcwOKt?si=8183adcdda0d4e98
Book Adam Ayala: wvctherapy.com
*OUTLINE:*
00:00 Introduction
02:40 Emotional Presence & Empathy
13:59 Sympathy vs. Empathy
31:17 Misguided Empathy & Soul Murder
45:16 Balancing Assumptions & Inquiry
01:18:47 Philosophy in Psychoanalytic Training
01:28:31 Genuine Empathy vs. Manipulation
01:46:24 Suffering Well
01:50:03 Modern Perspectives on Freud & Jung
02:03:18 Final Thoughts & Outro
*CONTACT LINKS:*
To come on the podcast, share feedback, ask a question, or reach out for any reason, visit: podcast.jeffreyvanleeuwen.com/p/contact
This episode has been co-produced by Kate van Leeuwen.
