Uploaded January 2026 | Updated September 2026, 2 weeks ago
While dystopian fiction dominates our screens and bookshelves, Elle Griffin is busy researching how things might actually go right. She wanted to write a utopian novel and realized she needed a better understanding of what an ideal society could look like.
In our conversation, we discuss how her favorite utopian literature influenced her views on a well-designed society. But we also explore practical ideas on how we could improve our systems:
- Tax autonomy: Why giving states and cities the power to collect their own taxes would allow them to fund the specific services their citizens actually want.
- A la carte federations: A model where cities and states choose to join specific agreements, like a "fishing EU" or a "healthcare EU," instead of being forced into one large, centralized government that manages every aspect of life.
- The Mondragon model: What we can learn from a massive network of worker-owned cooperatives in Spain that provides its own unemployment insurance and university.
- Who should control AI: Why giving voting authority to the employees who write the code (rather than investors or nonprofit boards) might be the best way to prevent unethical shortcuts.
- Singapore’s land model: How the government acts as a landlord to fund public services, allowing for lower income taxes while still providing universal social support.
- Fixing the Internet: How to use personal data and AI to make us wiser, rather than letting algorithms
push us toward fast fashion and political radicalization.
00:00:00 Cold open
00:00:52 Introducing Elle Griffin
00:01:52 How writing a novel turned into a research project
00:03:46 Elle’s current work: From print pamphlets to "We Should Own the Economy"
00:04:31 The setup of Elle’s upcoming utopian novel
00:05:55 From gothic literature to utopian literature
00:15:07 Three classic utopian novels and their recurring lessons
00:21:27 Building a "future Asia" through mythology and technology
00:23:14 What if US States had the same autonomy as EU countries?
00:27:36 "A la carte" federalism: moving toward a modular government
00:32:19 The Mondragon model: a blueprint for worker-owned economies
00:35:43 Why the smallest government is the best government
00:43:54 The global monoculture and the rise of micro-cultures
00:52:27 Who should control AI? The case for employee-led governance
01:00:31 Fixing the Internet and using AI to make us wise, not just efficient
01:05:39 Why Victor Hugo’s "Les Misérables" is the ultimate masterpiece
01:07:34 An existential hope vision for the future
Find full transcript and resources at existentialhope.com/podcasts/elle-griffin
While dystopian fiction dominates our screens and bookshelves, Elle Griffin is busy researching how things might actually go right. She wanted to write a utopian novel and realized she needed a better understanding of what an ideal society could look like.
In our conversation, we discuss how her favorite utopian literature influenced her views on a well-designed society. But we also explore practical ideas on how we could improve our systems:
- Tax autonomy: Why giving states and cities the power to collect their own taxes would allow them to fund the specific services their citizens actually want.
- A la carte federations: A model where cities and states choose to join specific agreements, like a "fishing EU" or a "healthcare EU," instead of being forced into one large, centralized government that manages every aspect of life.
- The Mondragon model: What we can learn from a massive network of worker-owned cooperatives in Spain that provides its own unemployment insurance and university.
- Who should control AI: Why giving voting authority to the employees who write the code (rather than investors or nonprofit boards) might be the best way to prevent unethical shortcuts.
- Singapore’s land model: How the government acts as a landlord to fund public services, allowing for lower income taxes while still providing universal social support.
- Fixing the Internet: How to use personal data and AI to make us wiser, rather than letting algorithms
push us toward fast fashion and political radicalization.
00:00:00 Cold open
00:00:52 Introducing Elle Griffin
00:01:52 How writing a novel turned into a research project
00:03:46 Elle’s current work: From print pamphlets to "We Should Own the Economy"
00:04:31 The setup of Elle’s upcoming utopian novel
00:05:55 From gothic literature to utopian literature
00:15:07 Three classic utopian novels and their recurring lessons
00:21:27 Building a "future Asia" through mythology and technology
00:23:14 What if US States had the same autonomy as EU countries?
00:27:36 "A la carte" federalism: moving toward a modular government
00:32:19 The Mondragon model: a blueprint for worker-owned economies
00:35:43 Why the smallest government is the best government
00:43:54 The global monoculture and the rise of micro-cultures
00:52:27 Who should control AI? The case for employee-led governance
01:00:31 Fixing the Internet and using AI to make us wise, not just efficient
01:05:39 Why Victor Hugo’s "Les Misérables" is the ultimate masterpiece
01:07:34 An existential hope vision for the future
Find full transcript and resources at existentialhope.com/podcasts/elle-griffin
