Uploaded June 2025 | Updated September 2026, 2 days ago
Gm and Happy Monday! This week, Dan Smith, a Lead Blockworks Researcher and Jonah Weinstein, a Portfolio Manager of SkyCatcher, join Yano to dive into the timely conversation about which metric is better/best to evaluate L1 tokens – REV or RSOV?
Start your day with crypto news, analysis and data from Katherine Ross.
Subscribe to the Empire newsletter: blockworks.co/newsletter/empire?utm_source=podcasts
Follow Jonah: https://x.com/_Jonahw
Follow Dan: https://x.com/smyyguy
Follow Santi: https://x.com/santiagoroel
Follow Jason: https://x.com/JasonYanowitz
Follow Empire: twitter.com/theempirepod
Join the Empire Telegram: https://t.me/+CaCYvTOB4Eg1OWJh
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Grab your tickets to Permissionless IV. Use code EMPIRE10 for 10% off: blockworks.co/event/permissionless-iv
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SKALE is the next evolution in Layer 1 blockchains with a gas-free invisible user experience, instant finality, high speed, and robust security. SKALE is built different as it allows for limitless scalability and has already saved its 50 Million users over $11 Billion in gas fees.
SKALE is high-performance and cost-effective, making it ideal for compute-intensive applications like AI, gaming, and consumer-facing dApps. Learn more at https://skale.space and stay up to date with the gas-free invisible blockchain on X at @skalenetwork
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Marinade Labs develops staking technologies that strengthen Solana.
In 2021, our protocol was the first to bring liquid staking to the network; today, our sophisticated, high-performance staking delegation platform brings billions in liquidity and security to the SOL market. We have solutions for both DeFi and TradFi, including liquid and native staking, as well as direct enterprise integrations.
Our best-in-market features include user downside protection (through protected staking rewards) and optimized delegation (via our automated auction marketplace). Crypto asset investors worldwide, from individual traders to global institutions, use Marinade to earn rewards on their SOL treasuries and holdings. We are headquartered in New York, with offices in the European Union, including Prague.
To learn more about Marinade, visit https://www.marinade.finance.
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Crypto never sleeps. So we built an Al analyst that never blinks.
Meet Focal by FalconX: a GenAI insights engine built for institutional crypto.
Already used by 80+ funds managing $10B+ in AUM.
- Screen, chart, and analyze 1300+ tokens
- Summarize market-moving news instantly
- Integrates data from CoinGecko, Kaito, Token Terminal, Tokenomist, The Tie
Get started today: askfocal.com
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Ledn is the leading platform for Bitcoin-backed loans, offering a secure and transparent way to unlock liquidity without selling your Bitcoin. Ledn has issued over $9 billion in loans since 2018 and has never lost a single satoshi of client assets, earning a reputation as the name you can trust in the crypto space.
Visit ledn.io to learn more.
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Chapters:
00:00 Intro
02:31 Why Do We Need Better Valuation Frameworks?
05:00 What’s Wrong With The Metrics Today?
08:07 What’s The Proper Reference Point To Understand Value?
09:33 Are L1 Tokens Money?
11:10 Ads (Skale Marinade)
12:48 Is A L1 Token A Commodity Or Company?
17:05 Abstracting Payment Currency From User
19:32 Why RSOV Valuation Is So Important
23:48 Ads (Skale Marinade)
25:27 Discounted Cash Flow
29:07 Valuation Litmus Test
31:38 RSOV & Capital Inflows
33:40 Is demand denominated in the token or fiat currency?
35:31 Validators Get Paid In Native Currency
37:53 What’s REV?
41:38 The FX Component
42:58 RSOV’s Valuation Mechanism
44:43 Where RSOV and REV differ
47:27 If Native Assets 10X, Do The Hotspots?
49:05 Ads (Falcon x, LEDN)
50:52 Monetary L1 Premium Factor In?
52:56 Fiat Currency Crisis Accelerate Non Govt Adoption
55:36 RSOV vs REV Valuation Trends Over Time
01:00:49 How Does Staking / DeFi Deposits Impact Valuation?
01:02:47 PE Values In RSOV
01:05:25 Audience Question From Telegram
01:12:19 Dan’s Updated Views of RSOV
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Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.
Gm and Happy Monday! This week, Dan Smith, a Lead Blockworks Researcher and Jonah Weinstein, a Portfolio Manager of SkyCatcher, join Yano to dive into the timely conversation about which metric is better/best to evaluate L1 tokens – REV or RSOV?
Start your day with crypto news, analysis and data from Katherine Ross.
Subscribe to the Empire newsletter: blockworks.co/newsletter/empire?utm_source=podcasts
Follow Jonah: https://x.com/_Jonahw
Follow Dan: https://x.com/smyyguy
Follow Santi: https://x.com/santiagoroel
Follow Jason: https://x.com/JasonYanowitz
Follow Empire: twitter.com/theempirepod
Join the Empire Telegram: https://t.me/+CaCYvTOB4Eg1OWJh
--
Grab your tickets to Permissionless IV. Use code EMPIRE10 for 10% off: blockworks.co/event/permissionless-iv
--
SKALE is the next evolution in Layer 1 blockchains with a gas-free invisible user experience, instant finality, high speed, and robust security. SKALE is built different as it allows for limitless scalability and has already saved its 50 Million users over $11 Billion in gas fees.
SKALE is high-performance and cost-effective, making it ideal for compute-intensive applications like AI, gaming, and consumer-facing dApps. Learn more at https://skale.space and stay up to date with the gas-free invisible blockchain on X at @skalenetwork
--
Marinade Labs develops staking technologies that strengthen Solana.
In 2021, our protocol was the first to bring liquid staking to the network; today, our sophisticated, high-performance staking delegation platform brings billions in liquidity and security to the SOL market. We have solutions for both DeFi and TradFi, including liquid and native staking, as well as direct enterprise integrations.
Our best-in-market features include user downside protection (through protected staking rewards) and optimized delegation (via our automated auction marketplace). Crypto asset investors worldwide, from individual traders to global institutions, use Marinade to earn rewards on their SOL treasuries and holdings. We are headquartered in New York, with offices in the European Union, including Prague.
To learn more about Marinade, visit https://www.marinade.finance.
--
Crypto never sleeps. So we built an Al analyst that never blinks.
Meet Focal by FalconX: a GenAI insights engine built for institutional crypto.
Already used by 80+ funds managing $10B+ in AUM.
- Screen, chart, and analyze 1300+ tokens
- Summarize market-moving news instantly
- Integrates data from CoinGecko, Kaito, Token Terminal, Tokenomist, The Tie
Get started today: askfocal.com
--
Ledn is the leading platform for Bitcoin-backed loans, offering a secure and transparent way to unlock liquidity without selling your Bitcoin. Ledn has issued over $9 billion in loans since 2018 and has never lost a single satoshi of client assets, earning a reputation as the name you can trust in the crypto space.
Visit ledn.io to learn more.
--
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
02:31 Why Do We Need Better Valuation Frameworks?
05:00 What’s Wrong With The Metrics Today?
08:07 What’s The Proper Reference Point To Understand Value?
09:33 Are L1 Tokens Money?
11:10 Ads (Skale Marinade)
12:48 Is A L1 Token A Commodity Or Company?
17:05 Abstracting Payment Currency From User
19:32 Why RSOV Valuation Is So Important
23:48 Ads (Skale Marinade)
25:27 Discounted Cash Flow
29:07 Valuation Litmus Test
31:38 RSOV & Capital Inflows
33:40 Is demand denominated in the token or fiat currency?
35:31 Validators Get Paid In Native Currency
37:53 What’s REV?
41:38 The FX Component
42:58 RSOV’s Valuation Mechanism
44:43 Where RSOV and REV differ
47:27 If Native Assets 10X, Do The Hotspots?
49:05 Ads (Falcon x, LEDN)
50:52 Monetary L1 Premium Factor In?
52:56 Fiat Currency Crisis Accelerate Non Govt Adoption
55:36 RSOV vs REV Valuation Trends Over Time
01:00:49 How Does Staking / DeFi Deposits Impact Valuation?
01:02:47 PE Values In RSOV
01:05:25 Audience Question From Telegram
01:12:19 Dan’s Updated Views of RSOV
—
Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.
