Uploaded August 2026 | Updated September 2026, 3 days ago
*What happens when leaders become too certain that they already know the answer?* In this episode of *Colors of Tech & Entrepreneurship*, Lam sits down with Deborah Clary, a former Fortune 50 executive and leadership expert who has spent decades working across companies including Frito-Lay, Coca-Cola, Jack Daniel's, and Humana. Deborah's work today focuses on one deceptively simple idea: *curiosity can be learned and it can transform how organizations and leaders perform.*
Deborah explains why experience and confidence can sometimes become a liability when they turn into certainty. We explore what happened to companies like BlackBerry and Blockbuster when leaders stopped questioning their assumptions, how leaders can create cultures where employees feel safe challenging ideas, and how the *Curiosity Curve* helps teams understand their strengths and blind spots. We also discuss a particularly important question for startup founders: how can a small team with limited time and resources build more curiosity into everyday decision-making?
The conversation then turns to AI. When everyone can access abundant information and generate plausible answers in seconds, what becomes the real competitive advantage? Deborah argues that *discernment and judgment become even more important—and that the leaders of the future may be those who are willing to explore better questions rather than simply having all the answers.* We also discuss AI, young leaders, changing your mind, psychological safety, and the one question every leader should ask their team: *“When was the last time you changed your mind?”*
⌛ Timestamps:
00:00:00 Episode trailer
00:00:30 Show & guest introduction
00:01:40 Frito-Lay, Coca-Cola, Jack Daniel's, and the pivot to a doctorate in leader development
00:05:12 The CEO question that changed everything: can curiosity be learned?
00:06:41 The engagement collapse: millennials, 39% of the workforce, and the pipeline problem
00:11:39 Certainty in doses: why the book is called “The Curiosity Curve”
00:13:01 Blackberry and Blockbuster: what certainty costs
00:15:20 Inside the assessment: the four factors and the imbalance most founders share
00:20:35 Short runway, no time for workshops: the founder who said "that's me"
00:23:52 Making it safe to ask hard questions: dissent as a C-suite core value
00:25:00 What to do when your founder won't budge
00:27:17 Curious organizations vs. companies that just buy AI tools
00:30:06 The question ambitious young leaders should ask themselves
00:31:20 AGI, and what humans still do better
00:35:38 One bold question to ask your team this week
00:37:12 Where to follow Debra & The Curiosity Curve
00:38:12 Episode outro and next episode preview
Follow Debra Clary and get her book:
1. Website: debraclary.com
2. LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drdebraclar
3. Facebook: facebook.com/drdebraclary
4. YouTube: youtube.com/@debraclary/videos
5. Instagram: instagram.com/the_curiosity_curve
6. Book: amazon.com/Curiosity-Curve-Leaders-Transformation-Questions/dp/1639081380/ref=sr_1_1?crid=11RB378F03YPT&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.ObjObL7kpWPYm7F6xO2UI7gk-tqinwBmMHa105D9K8m7VePNPDYi1p8U9SKDI9L0rNqBBtPcjDUBm24D1wdWzaCd04KU2ZJ2S6NIKqVTLhKX6wqEFbu2yj2QXgkFVriXDwVc3dituNNYrv86qiWIyh7vjW-SAj8LOM2UaPLsz-SD3qQfj9xcq6G1cEJfWZcUs9h7SLVhiMXpAXRqH7oDmw.H02UepDZJaRVCfD39Xcsatoy9u596UllaE9LMpmGgoQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=the+curiosity+curve&qid=1786085209&sprefix=the+curiosity+curv%2Caps%2C392&sr=8-1
Our social media:
YouTube: youtube.com/channel/UCZkB6EsFenFzIm1-a01cfsw
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/4H61B1PBJ9eeFz8U6tYwJY
Twitter/X: https://x.com/ColorsofTechpod
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/colors-of-tech-entrepreneurship
If you enjoy this episode, please subscribe to stay updated on our upcoming episodes with industry experts and innovators in the Tech and Entrepreneurship spaces. Thank you for listening!
*What happens when leaders become too certain that they already know the answer?* In this episode of *Colors of Tech & Entrepreneurship*, Lam sits down with Deborah Clary, a former Fortune 50 executive and leadership expert who has spent decades working across companies including Frito-Lay, Coca-Cola, Jack Daniel's, and Humana. Deborah's work today focuses on one deceptively simple idea: *curiosity can be learned and it can transform how organizations and leaders perform.*
Deborah explains why experience and confidence can sometimes become a liability when they turn into certainty. We explore what happened to companies like BlackBerry and Blockbuster when leaders stopped questioning their assumptions, how leaders can create cultures where employees feel safe challenging ideas, and how the *Curiosity Curve* helps teams understand their strengths and blind spots. We also discuss a particularly important question for startup founders: how can a small team with limited time and resources build more curiosity into everyday decision-making?
The conversation then turns to AI. When everyone can access abundant information and generate plausible answers in seconds, what becomes the real competitive advantage? Deborah argues that *discernment and judgment become even more important—and that the leaders of the future may be those who are willing to explore better questions rather than simply having all the answers.* We also discuss AI, young leaders, changing your mind, psychological safety, and the one question every leader should ask their team: *“When was the last time you changed your mind?”*
⌛ Timestamps:
00:00:00 Episode trailer
00:00:30 Show & guest introduction
00:01:40 Frito-Lay, Coca-Cola, Jack Daniel's, and the pivot to a doctorate in leader development
00:05:12 The CEO question that changed everything: can curiosity be learned?
00:06:41 The engagement collapse: millennials, 39% of the workforce, and the pipeline problem
00:11:39 Certainty in doses: why the book is called “The Curiosity Curve”
00:13:01 Blackberry and Blockbuster: what certainty costs
00:15:20 Inside the assessment: the four factors and the imbalance most founders share
00:20:35 Short runway, no time for workshops: the founder who said "that's me"
00:23:52 Making it safe to ask hard questions: dissent as a C-suite core value
00:25:00 What to do when your founder won't budge
00:27:17 Curious organizations vs. companies that just buy AI tools
00:30:06 The question ambitious young leaders should ask themselves
00:31:20 AGI, and what humans still do better
00:35:38 One bold question to ask your team this week
00:37:12 Where to follow Debra & The Curiosity Curve
00:38:12 Episode outro and next episode preview
Follow Debra Clary and get her book:
1. Website: debraclary.com
2. LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drdebraclar
3. Facebook: facebook.com/drdebraclary
4. YouTube: youtube.com/@debraclary/videos
5. Instagram: instagram.com/the_curiosity_curve
6. Book: amazon.com/Curiosity-Curve-Leaders-Transformation-Questions/dp/1639081380/ref=sr_1_1?crid=11RB378F03YPT&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.ObjObL7kpWPYm7F6xO2UI7gk-tqinwBmMHa105D9K8m7VePNPDYi1p8U9SKDI9L0rNqBBtPcjDUBm24D1wdWzaCd04KU2ZJ2S6NIKqVTLhKX6wqEFbu2yj2QXgkFVriXDwVc3dituNNYrv86qiWIyh7vjW-SAj8LOM2UaPLsz-SD3qQfj9xcq6G1cEJfWZcUs9h7SLVhiMXpAXRqH7oDmw.H02UepDZJaRVCfD39Xcsatoy9u596UllaE9LMpmGgoQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=the+curiosity+curve&qid=1786085209&sprefix=the+curiosity+curv%2Caps%2C392&sr=8-1
Our social media:
YouTube: youtube.com/channel/UCZkB6EsFenFzIm1-a01cfsw
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/4H61B1PBJ9eeFz8U6tYwJY
Twitter/X: https://x.com/ColorsofTechpod
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/colors-of-tech-entrepreneurship
If you enjoy this episode, please subscribe to stay updated on our upcoming episodes with industry experts and innovators in the Tech and Entrepreneurship spaces. Thank you for listening!
