Uploaded July 2026 | Updated September 2026, 2 weeks ago
Christian nationalist pastor Joel Webbin says the state should seize churches that fly pride flags and auction the buildings to "faithful" churches — then tells politicians who agree with him to keep quiet about it until after they've won office.
This episode we take issue with the whole scheme: it isn't biblical, it isn't American, and it leans on a Hebrew Bible king (Josiah) precisely because the New Testament won't cooperate. But then things get strange, because when you ask whether the Bible actually forbids deception, the answer — right up to God himself — is a whole lot messier than "thou shalt not bear false witness."
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Get your Data Over Dogma merch at our online store:
data-over-dogma-shop.fourthwall.com
Shop our classic collection before our old store closes: datadoverdogma.printful.me
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Support Data Over Dogma and get every episode early and ad-free, plus exclusive bonus content — become a patron:
patreon.com/DataOverDogma
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Listen to the podcast on every app:
pod.link/1681418502
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Follow us:
Instagram — instagram.com/dataoverdogmapod
TikTok — tiktok.com/@data.over.dogma.pod
Threads — threads.com/@dataoverdogmapod
X — https://x.com/data_over_dogma
Facebook — facebook.com/DataOverDogmaPod
_______________________________________________
Get Dan McClellan's New York Times bestselling book, The Bible Says So:
static.macmillan.com/static/smp/bible-says-so-9781250347466
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:48 Can You Lie for Jesus?
1:30 Who Is Joel Webbon?
3:43 Josiah's Purge (2 Kings 23)
6:08 Propaganda, Not History
6:39 Depose the Pride-Flag Pastors
7:51 Hide Your Power Levels
9:19 Echoes of Project 2025
10:11 Is It Biblical?
13:08 Kings vs. the New Testament
14:15 No Religious Test for Office
16:25 Is It American?
18:27 Can You Lie for Good?
20:26 Jacob and the Divine Trickster
22:12 When God Lies
23:53 Why Is Lying the Line?
26:02 Is Webbon Consistent?
28:18 Deception in Real Politics
30:38 Wrap-Up
_______________________________________________
#DataOverDogma #BibleScholarship #ChristianNationalism #JoelWebbin #Josiah
Christian nationalist pastor Joel Webbin says the state should seize churches that fly pride flags and auction the buildings to "faithful" churches — then tells politicians who agree with him to keep quiet about it until after they've won office.
This episode we take issue with the whole scheme: it isn't biblical, it isn't American, and it leans on a Hebrew Bible king (Josiah) precisely because the New Testament won't cooperate. But then things get strange, because when you ask whether the Bible actually forbids deception, the answer — right up to God himself — is a whole lot messier than "thou shalt not bear false witness."
_______________________________________________
Get your Data Over Dogma merch at our online store:
data-over-dogma-shop.fourthwall.com
Shop our classic collection before our old store closes: datadoverdogma.printful.me
_______________________________________________
Support Data Over Dogma and get every episode early and ad-free, plus exclusive bonus content — become a patron:
patreon.com/DataOverDogma
_______________________________________________
Listen to the podcast on every app:
pod.link/1681418502
_______________________________________________
Follow us:
Instagram — instagram.com/dataoverdogmapod
TikTok — tiktok.com/@data.over.dogma.pod
Threads — threads.com/@dataoverdogmapod
X — https://x.com/data_over_dogma
Facebook — facebook.com/DataOverDogmaPod
_______________________________________________
Get Dan McClellan's New York Times bestselling book, The Bible Says So:
static.macmillan.com/static/smp/bible-says-so-9781250347466
_______________________________________________
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:48 Can You Lie for Jesus?
1:30 Who Is Joel Webbon?
3:43 Josiah's Purge (2 Kings 23)
6:08 Propaganda, Not History
6:39 Depose the Pride-Flag Pastors
7:51 Hide Your Power Levels
9:19 Echoes of Project 2025
10:11 Is It Biblical?
13:08 Kings vs. the New Testament
14:15 No Religious Test for Office
16:25 Is It American?
18:27 Can You Lie for Good?
20:26 Jacob and the Divine Trickster
22:12 When God Lies
23:53 Why Is Lying the Line?
26:02 Is Webbon Consistent?
28:18 Deception in Real Politics
30:38 Wrap-Up
_______________________________________________
#DataOverDogma #BibleScholarship #ChristianNationalism #JoelWebbin #Josiah
