Uploaded November 2025 | Updated September 2026, 3 weeks ago
The Michael Shermer Show # 561
Why do smart people join dangerous cults, follow bad leaders, or stay silent when they know something’s wrong? In this episode, Michael Shermer talks with organizational psychologist Colin Fisher about the science of group dynamics and conformity.
From jazz bands to political mobs, Fisher explains how our evolutionary need to belong both unites and blinds us. He discusses the psychology of revenge, polarization, social media extremism, and why our brains are wired to dehumanize “the other.”
What makes a group innovative instead of dogmatic? And how close are we—really—to turning everyday politics into a cult?
Colin M. Fisher is an Associate Professor of Organizations and Innovation at University College London's School of Management. His research focuses on helping groups and teams in situations requiring creativity, improvisation, and complex decision-making. He has written about group dynamics for both popular science and management audiences, and his work has been profiled in prominent media outlets such as BBC, Forbes, NPR, and The Times. His new book is The Collective Edge: Unlocking the Secret Power of Groups.
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If you enjoy the podcast, please show your support by making a $5 or $10 monthly donation.
skeptic.com/donate
#michaelshermer
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Listen to The Michael Shermer Show or subscribe directly on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Amazon Music.
skeptic.com/michael-shermer-show
The Michael Shermer Show # 561
Why do smart people join dangerous cults, follow bad leaders, or stay silent when they know something’s wrong? In this episode, Michael Shermer talks with organizational psychologist Colin Fisher about the science of group dynamics and conformity.
From jazz bands to political mobs, Fisher explains how our evolutionary need to belong both unites and blinds us. He discusses the psychology of revenge, polarization, social media extremism, and why our brains are wired to dehumanize “the other.”
What makes a group innovative instead of dogmatic? And how close are we—really—to turning everyday politics into a cult?
Colin M. Fisher is an Associate Professor of Organizations and Innovation at University College London's School of Management. His research focuses on helping groups and teams in situations requiring creativity, improvisation, and complex decision-making. He has written about group dynamics for both popular science and management audiences, and his work has been profiled in prominent media outlets such as BBC, Forbes, NPR, and The Times. His new book is The Collective Edge: Unlocking the Secret Power of Groups.
SUPPORT THE PODCAST
If you enjoy the podcast, please show your support by making a $5 or $10 monthly donation.
skeptic.com/donate
#michaelshermer
#skeptic
Listen to The Michael Shermer Show or subscribe directly on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Amazon Music.
skeptic.com/michael-shermer-show
