Uploaded August 2026 | Updated September 2026, 2 weeks ago
SPONSORS:
- Visit mod.com for a free consultation and get 10% off your first order PLUS free shipping with promo code TOE.
- I personally subscribe to The Economist. TOE listeners get 35% off the annual subscription. No other podcast has this! economist.com/TOE
There are three questions people ask about consciousness: what it is, how to explain it, and how to measure it. This episode is entirely the third one. Adrian Owen, professor of cognitive neuroscience at Western University, joins to explain how he detects consciousness in patients thought to be completely unaware — and why he believes thousands have been "hiding in plain sight" for decades. Owen walks through the landmark case that started it all: asking a non-responsive patient to imagine playing tennis, and watching her brain light up like a healthy person's. We discuss the differences between coma, vegetative state, minimally conscious state, and locked-in syndrome, and what recovered patients have reported about their experience — including one man whose memories were sharper than his doctor's. The conversation covers how movies like Taken are used to detect awareness through brain synchronization, why negative results can never prove someone is unconscious, and the ethics of asking a locked-in patient if they want to keep living. This is an in-depth conversation with Adrian Owen.
FOLLOW:
- Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e
- Substack: curtjaimungal.substack.com/subscribe
- Twitter: twitter.com/TOEwithCurt
- Discord Invite: discord.com/invite/kBcnfNVwqs
- Crypto: nowpayments.io/donation/TOE
- PayPal: paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=XUBHNMFXUX5S4
TIMESTAMPS:
- 00:00:00 - Trapped Consciousness Detection
- 00:05:15 - Total Locked-in Syndrome
- 00:10:40 - Wakefulness Without Awareness
- 00:15:45 - The fMRI Tennis Test
- 00:21:00 - Decoding Neural Intent
- 00:26:30 - Mapping the Grey Zone
- 00:32:00 - Non-Responsive Patient Lucidity
- 00:37:30 - Life-Support Ethical Dilemmas
- 00:43:00 - Brain-Computer Interface Futures
- 00:48:30 - Hijacking Consciousness via Narrative
- 00:54:00 - The Liam Neeson Test
- 00:59:30 - Thalamocortical Pathway Disruption
- 01:05:00 - Deep Brain Stimulation Potential
- 01:10:30 - Anesthetic Awareness Dangers
- 01:16:00 - AI and Language Lures
- 01:21:30 - IIT Pseudoscience Controversy
LINKS MENTIONED:
- The Owen Lab: owenlab.org
- Think Before You Think [Book]: amazon.com/dp/1324075163?tag=toe08-20
- Into The Gray Zone [Book]: amazon.com/dp/1501135201?tag=toe08-20
- Into The Gray Zone [Lecture]: youtu.be/01_ECXZK9dA
- Detecting Awareness In The Vegetative State [Paper]: science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1130197
- Cortical Processing In Persistent Vegetative State [Paper]: thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(05)77805-3/abstract
- Response To 'Minimally Conscious State Or Cortically Mediated State?' [Paper]: academic.oup.com/brain/article/141/4/e26/4838964
- Risk, Diagnostic Error, And The Clinical Science Of Consciousness [Paper]: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25844313
- A Common Neural Code For Similar Conscious Experiences In Different Individuals [Paper]: pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1407007111
- Locked-In Syndrome: ninds.nih.gov/health-information/disorders/locked-syndrome
- CIFAR: cifar.ca/research-programs/brain-mind-consciousness
- Tests For Consciousness In Humans And Beyond [Paper]: cell.com/trends/cognitive-sciences/fulltext/S1364-6613(24)00010-X
- Early Identification Of Recovery Potential After Acute Brain Injury Using Functional Near Infrared Spectroscopy [Paper]: link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12028-026-02605-0
- Consciousness Iceberg [TOE]: youtu.be/65yjqIDghEk
- Michael Levin & Anil Seth [TOE]: youtu.be/_kuwwmFnxGY
- Iain McGilchrist [TOE]: youtu.be/Q9sBKCd2HD0
- Roman Yampolskiy [TOE]: youtu.be/TgFmA-Qwsek
- Elan Barenholtz [TOE]: youtu.be/A36OumnSrWY
- Simon Saunders [TOE]: youtu.be/Ihv542rCUns
Guests do not pay to appear. #science
SPONSORS:
- Visit mod.com for a free consultation and get 10% off your first order PLUS free shipping with promo code TOE.
- I personally subscribe to The Economist. TOE listeners get 35% off the annual subscription. No other podcast has this! economist.com/TOE
There are three questions people ask about consciousness: what it is, how to explain it, and how to measure it. This episode is entirely the third one. Adrian Owen, professor of cognitive neuroscience at Western University, joins to explain how he detects consciousness in patients thought to be completely unaware — and why he believes thousands have been "hiding in plain sight" for decades. Owen walks through the landmark case that started it all: asking a non-responsive patient to imagine playing tennis, and watching her brain light up like a healthy person's. We discuss the differences between coma, vegetative state, minimally conscious state, and locked-in syndrome, and what recovered patients have reported about their experience — including one man whose memories were sharper than his doctor's. The conversation covers how movies like Taken are used to detect awareness through brain synchronization, why negative results can never prove someone is unconscious, and the ethics of asking a locked-in patient if they want to keep living. This is an in-depth conversation with Adrian Owen.
FOLLOW:
- Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e
- Substack: curtjaimungal.substack.com/subscribe
- Twitter: twitter.com/TOEwithCurt
- Discord Invite: discord.com/invite/kBcnfNVwqs
- Crypto: nowpayments.io/donation/TOE
- PayPal: paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=XUBHNMFXUX5S4
TIMESTAMPS:
- 00:00:00 - Trapped Consciousness Detection
- 00:05:15 - Total Locked-in Syndrome
- 00:10:40 - Wakefulness Without Awareness
- 00:15:45 - The fMRI Tennis Test
- 00:21:00 - Decoding Neural Intent
- 00:26:30 - Mapping the Grey Zone
- 00:32:00 - Non-Responsive Patient Lucidity
- 00:37:30 - Life-Support Ethical Dilemmas
- 00:43:00 - Brain-Computer Interface Futures
- 00:48:30 - Hijacking Consciousness via Narrative
- 00:54:00 - The Liam Neeson Test
- 00:59:30 - Thalamocortical Pathway Disruption
- 01:05:00 - Deep Brain Stimulation Potential
- 01:10:30 - Anesthetic Awareness Dangers
- 01:16:00 - AI and Language Lures
- 01:21:30 - IIT Pseudoscience Controversy
LINKS MENTIONED:
- The Owen Lab: owenlab.org
- Think Before You Think [Book]: amazon.com/dp/1324075163?tag=toe08-20
- Into The Gray Zone [Book]: amazon.com/dp/1501135201?tag=toe08-20
- Into The Gray Zone [Lecture]: youtu.be/01_ECXZK9dA
- Detecting Awareness In The Vegetative State [Paper]: science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1130197
- Cortical Processing In Persistent Vegetative State [Paper]: thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(05)77805-3/abstract
- Response To 'Minimally Conscious State Or Cortically Mediated State?' [Paper]: academic.oup.com/brain/article/141/4/e26/4838964
- Risk, Diagnostic Error, And The Clinical Science Of Consciousness [Paper]: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25844313
- A Common Neural Code For Similar Conscious Experiences In Different Individuals [Paper]: pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1407007111
- Locked-In Syndrome: ninds.nih.gov/health-information/disorders/locked-syndrome
- CIFAR: cifar.ca/research-programs/brain-mind-consciousness
- Tests For Consciousness In Humans And Beyond [Paper]: cell.com/trends/cognitive-sciences/fulltext/S1364-6613(24)00010-X
- Early Identification Of Recovery Potential After Acute Brain Injury Using Functional Near Infrared Spectroscopy [Paper]: link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12028-026-02605-0
- Consciousness Iceberg [TOE]: youtu.be/65yjqIDghEk
- Michael Levin & Anil Seth [TOE]: youtu.be/_kuwwmFnxGY
- Iain McGilchrist [TOE]: youtu.be/Q9sBKCd2HD0
- Roman Yampolskiy [TOE]: youtu.be/TgFmA-Qwsek
- Elan Barenholtz [TOE]: youtu.be/A36OumnSrWY
- Simon Saunders [TOE]: youtu.be/Ihv542rCUns
Guests do not pay to appear. #science
