thegreatstory | Tom Wessels: Post-doom with Michael Dowd @thegreatstory | Uploaded May 2020 | Updated October 2024, 9 hours ago.
Tom Wessels and Michael Dowd in conversation August 2019 as part of the Post-doom Conversations series. Title: "Right Relationship"
00:14 - Three PREVIEWS
01:39 - Host Michael Dowd (MD) begins the conversation; "myth of progress"
02:53 - Tom Wessels (TW) introduces self, emeritus professor of ecology, emphasis on complex systems theory
03:38 - Q&A on post-doom and related emotions; TW own journey of realizing that the social systems at fault will not change in advance of collapse. Bottom up changes are now the only possibilities.
06:47 - MD on William Catton's "Homo colossus" will go extinct, but Homo sapiens may not. "I have come to peace with the possibility of the extinction of Homo sapiens — only because then it has no power over me; I'm not terrified by that."
07:21 - MD's wife Connie Barlow as an advocate of "assisted migration" of trees poleward.
07:42 - TW on all species have a life span; ours too.
07:59 - Discussing Wessel's book, "The Myth of Progress," chapter by chapter
08:34 - Chapter 1 - "The Myth of Control: Complex v. Linear Systems"
10:35 - Chapter 2 - "The Myth of Growth: Limits and Sustainability"
11:33 - Chapter 3 - "The Myth of Energy: Second Law of Thermodynamics". Three states: Anti-Entropic, Dynamic Equilibrium, Entropic
15:13 - Chapter 4 - "The Myth of the Free Market: The Loss of Diversity and Democracy". Self-organization through: coevolution, specialization, biodiversity, functional repetition, decentralization of critical functional roles, resiliency. Now human societies are doing the opposite.
19:12 - Chapter 5 - "The Myth of Progress: Need for Cultural Change"; loss or relationship today contrasts with intact indigenous cultures. Overshoot; carrying capacity.
21:20 - MD summarizes his own short video, "Sane v. Insane Progress"
22:05 - TW - fault with "linear thinking"; environmental problems all arise from technologies; MD on faulty measures of "progress"
23:42 - TW summarizes two more of his books: "Reading the Forested Landscape" and "Forest Forensics" ("reading" the history of a forest)
25:12 - MD on being an "eco-theologian"; sermon "Ecology Is the New Theology". Living world "as a greater thou, not a lesser it;" relationship.
26:31 - TW "Sustainability is all about right relationship." MD on wrong turn to "anthropocentrism" away from previous "eco-centrism."
27:38 - TW life story: Key turning point for TW was first year in college (1969) while reading "Black Elk Speaks", "Sand County Almanac", and "Silent Spring." Environmental excitement of 1970s; then disappointment of the 1990s; realization that unhealthy worldview was root cause, so he began teaching "The Principles of Sustainability." In 2010 began to accept that necessary change would not happen.
31:44 - MD resonates with TW life trajectory and calls it "post-doom": feeling then coming through sadness, grief, heartbreak.
32:34 - TW has no use anymore for "optimism or pessimism, but I still have hope." His action is "community building at the local scale."
33:23 - MD on "hope as a problematic word." Rather, "post-doom inspiration." TW on longer term view of earth history eases sadness.
34:54 - TW recommendations of books: Fritjof Capra "The Web of Life." Current spiritual teachers who write: Terry Tempest Williams and Lauret Savoy.
36:04 - TW Human collapse is not inevitable; the problem is "this worldview of separation," not human nature. MD on "language undergirds that."
37:49 - Q&A on "Impermanence and Death" as crucial understanding of natural cycles in complex systems.
40:16 - Q&A on finding the "gift" after grief. TW's experiential relationship with the natural world is where he finds the gift beyond ecological sadness. TW childhood story of early bonding with the woods.
44:14 - Q&A on "remaining opportunities" for making a difference. Answer: "working in communities; any change will come from the bottom up."
• More Post-Doom conversations at postdoom.com
Tom Wessels and Michael Dowd in conversation August 2019 as part of the Post-doom Conversations series. Title: "Right Relationship"
00:14 - Three PREVIEWS
01:39 - Host Michael Dowd (MD) begins the conversation; "myth of progress"
02:53 - Tom Wessels (TW) introduces self, emeritus professor of ecology, emphasis on complex systems theory
03:38 - Q&A on post-doom and related emotions; TW own journey of realizing that the social systems at fault will not change in advance of collapse. Bottom up changes are now the only possibilities.
06:47 - MD on William Catton's "Homo colossus" will go extinct, but Homo sapiens may not. "I have come to peace with the possibility of the extinction of Homo sapiens — only because then it has no power over me; I'm not terrified by that."
07:21 - MD's wife Connie Barlow as an advocate of "assisted migration" of trees poleward.
07:42 - TW on all species have a life span; ours too.
07:59 - Discussing Wessel's book, "The Myth of Progress," chapter by chapter
08:34 - Chapter 1 - "The Myth of Control: Complex v. Linear Systems"
10:35 - Chapter 2 - "The Myth of Growth: Limits and Sustainability"
11:33 - Chapter 3 - "The Myth of Energy: Second Law of Thermodynamics". Three states: Anti-Entropic, Dynamic Equilibrium, Entropic
15:13 - Chapter 4 - "The Myth of the Free Market: The Loss of Diversity and Democracy". Self-organization through: coevolution, specialization, biodiversity, functional repetition, decentralization of critical functional roles, resiliency. Now human societies are doing the opposite.
19:12 - Chapter 5 - "The Myth of Progress: Need for Cultural Change"; loss or relationship today contrasts with intact indigenous cultures. Overshoot; carrying capacity.
21:20 - MD summarizes his own short video, "Sane v. Insane Progress"
22:05 - TW - fault with "linear thinking"; environmental problems all arise from technologies; MD on faulty measures of "progress"
23:42 - TW summarizes two more of his books: "Reading the Forested Landscape" and "Forest Forensics" ("reading" the history of a forest)
25:12 - MD on being an "eco-theologian"; sermon "Ecology Is the New Theology". Living world "as a greater thou, not a lesser it;" relationship.
26:31 - TW "Sustainability is all about right relationship." MD on wrong turn to "anthropocentrism" away from previous "eco-centrism."
27:38 - TW life story: Key turning point for TW was first year in college (1969) while reading "Black Elk Speaks", "Sand County Almanac", and "Silent Spring." Environmental excitement of 1970s; then disappointment of the 1990s; realization that unhealthy worldview was root cause, so he began teaching "The Principles of Sustainability." In 2010 began to accept that necessary change would not happen.
31:44 - MD resonates with TW life trajectory and calls it "post-doom": feeling then coming through sadness, grief, heartbreak.
32:34 - TW has no use anymore for "optimism or pessimism, but I still have hope." His action is "community building at the local scale."
33:23 - MD on "hope as a problematic word." Rather, "post-doom inspiration." TW on longer term view of earth history eases sadness.
34:54 - TW recommendations of books: Fritjof Capra "The Web of Life." Current spiritual teachers who write: Terry Tempest Williams and Lauret Savoy.
36:04 - TW Human collapse is not inevitable; the problem is "this worldview of separation," not human nature. MD on "language undergirds that."
37:49 - Q&A on "Impermanence and Death" as crucial understanding of natural cycles in complex systems.
40:16 - Q&A on finding the "gift" after grief. TW's experiential relationship with the natural world is where he finds the gift beyond ecological sadness. TW childhood story of early bonding with the woods.
44:14 - Q&A on "remaining opportunities" for making a difference. Answer: "working in communities; any change will come from the bottom up."
• More Post-Doom conversations at postdoom.com
