Uploaded April 2023 | Updated September 2026, 2 days ago

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Today we welcome back Dr. James Madden to the show. As I’m sure you’ll recall, Jim joined us a couple of months ago for a discussion about Plato’s Cave. We also discussed some of his latest work applying the philosophical concept of the umwelt to the UFO phenomenon. And I was really excited to see that that episode has become one of the most listened to episodes of the podcasts, because it’s definitely one of my favorites. If you haven’t listened to that episode yet, I highly recommend that you go back to that one first. Jim’s work builds on itself, and it will be helpful to lay down the foundation with that episode before moving onto this one.

In this episode, we’ll be moving on to Dr. Madden’s latest work. Over the last few months, in a flurry of articles released through his Substack, Jim has laid out a series of arguments as to the nature of the UFO phenomenon that are, frankly, mind blowing. It’s not over-stating things to say that what Jim has done is to essentially break ufology–and I mean that in the best possible way.

Because, in many ways, it’s been clear to anyone who is really paying attention that the traditional models and ontologies that have dominated modern ufology have needed to break. We began this podcast talking about what the UFO phenomenon might be, and we did a deep dive into the primary hypotheses including extraterrestrial, ultraterrestrial, interdimensional, extraterrestrial, etc. And all of those models are really useful for helping us to push our thinking about what the intelligence behind UFOs may represent. But if we’re being really honest with ourselves, we have to admit that none of them really fit. They come close in some ways, fall short in others, and ultimately leave us feeling like we’re trying to stretch a full-sized sheet over a queen-sized bed.

What we’ve needed–desperately–is a model that would collapse all of those ontological categories and integrate them into a larger, more coherent whole. And I’d argue that what Dr. Madden is postulating with regard to the UFO phenomenon does exactly that. I truly believe that what he is pointing to here is the future of ufology. This work is urgent and critically important for us moving forward.

GET THE EPISODE BRIEF
uforabbithole.com/podcast/dr-james-madden-pt-2-unidentified-flying-hyperobject

DR. JAMES MADDEN’S WORK
The Substack: jdmadden.substack.com

Articles Referenced In This Episode (on Substack)
--UFO Realism and the Uber-Umwelt
--Unidentified Flying Hyperobject
--Magonia as Hyperobject
--The UFO, Religion, and Our Epistemic Vulnerability

FOLLOW DR. JAMES MADDEN
Website: jdmadden.com
Twitter: twitter.com/JDMadden3

OTHER WORK REFERENCED

Hyperobjects: Philosophy and Ecology after the End of the World (Posthumanities) by Timothy Morton: https://a.co/d/1Nx4qgd

The Third Table by Graham Harman: scribd.com/doc/217978650/Graham-Harman-the-Third-Table

Object-Oriented Ontology: A New Theory of Everything by Graham Harman: https://a.co/d/37PVhA4

The Will to Power by Friedrich Nietzsche: https://a.co/d/52JwKpc

Thus Spoke Zarathustra by Friedrich Nietzsche: https://a.co/d/4BPJnrR

BECOME A PATRON
patreon.com/uforabbithole

GET THE BOOK
Get a SIGNED COPY: uforabbithole.store
Get it on Amazon: https://a.co/d/4XoxXR4

FOLLOW
Website: uforabbithole.com
Twitter: twitter.com/UFO_Rabbit_Hole
Facebook: facebook.com/uforabbithole

MUSIC
Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson

TIMESTAMPS

00:00:30 Introduction
00:03:54 Objects & Object Oriented Ontology
00:20:10 Hyperobjects
00:30:06 The UFO As Hyperobject
00:38:04 Magonia As Hyperobject
00:41:47 Breaking Ufology
00:45:59 AI & Creating The Hyperobject
00:53:14 Nietzsche & The Last Man