![[The UFO Rabbit Hole] An Interview with Mike Clelland: Owls, UFOs, and the Unfathomable Unseen @InquirywithKellyChase](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/y-98uGc76Gk/maxresdefault.jpg)
Uploaded June 2023 | Updated September 2026, 1 day ago
In this episode, I spoke with author, illustrator, and researcher, Mike Clelland. Mike is the author of several books, two of which we’ll be discussing directly in this episode. The first is The Messengers: Owls, Synchronicity, and the UFO Abductee. The second is his latest release, The Unseen, which is a fiction book that deals with many of the themes of his other work. He also provided the illustrations for the book The Cryptoterrestrials: A Meditation on Indigenous Humanoids and the Aliens Among Us by Mac Tonnies, that we’ll also be discussing in this episode. You can find links to all of his work below.
BOOKS BY MIKE CLELLAND
The Messengers: Owls, Synchronicity and the UFO Abductee: https://a.co/d/ionYzML
The Unseen: https://a.co/d/8fI31Ly
FOLLOW MIKE CLELLAND
Twitter: twitter.com/ClellandMike
Website: mikeclelland.com
GET THE EPISODE BRIEF
uforabbithole.com/podcast/an-interview-with-mike-clelland-owls-ufos-and-the-unfathomable-unseen
GET THE BOOK
Get a SIGNED COPY: uforabbithole.store
Get it on Amazon: a.co/d/64OSUTa
FOLLOW
Website: uforabbithole.com
Twitter: twitter.com/ufo_rabbit_hole
Facebook: facebook.com/uforabbithole
MUSIC
Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson
In this episode, I spoke with author, illustrator, and researcher, Mike Clelland. Mike is the author of several books, two of which we’ll be discussing directly in this episode. The first is The Messengers: Owls, Synchronicity, and the UFO Abductee. The second is his latest release, The Unseen, which is a fiction book that deals with many of the themes of his other work. He also provided the illustrations for the book The Cryptoterrestrials: A Meditation on Indigenous Humanoids and the Aliens Among Us by Mac Tonnies, that we’ll also be discussing in this episode. You can find links to all of his work below.
BOOKS BY MIKE CLELLAND
The Messengers: Owls, Synchronicity and the UFO Abductee: https://a.co/d/ionYzML
The Unseen: https://a.co/d/8fI31Ly
FOLLOW MIKE CLELLAND
Twitter: twitter.com/ClellandMike
Website: mikeclelland.com
GET THE EPISODE BRIEF
uforabbithole.com/podcast/an-interview-with-mike-clelland-owls-ufos-and-the-unfathomable-unseen
GET THE BOOK
Get a SIGNED COPY: uforabbithole.store
Get it on Amazon: a.co/d/64OSUTa
FOLLOW
Website: uforabbithole.com
Twitter: twitter.com/ufo_rabbit_hole
Facebook: facebook.com/uforabbithole
MUSIC
Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson
![[The UFO Rabbit Hole] An Interview with Mike Clelland: Owls, UFOs, and the Unfathomable Unseen](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/y-98uGc76Gk/mqdefault.jpg "[The UFO Rabbit Hole] An Interview with Mike Clelland: Owls, UFOs, and the Unfathomable Unseen
In this episode, I spoke with author, illustrator, and researcher, Mike Clelland. Mike is the author of several books, two of which we’ll be discussing directly in this episode. The first is The Messengers: Owls, Synchronicity, and the UFO Abductee. The second is his latest release, The Unseen, which is a fiction book that deals with many of the themes of his other work. He also provided the illustrations for the book The Cryptoterrestrials: A Meditation on Indigenous Humanoids and the Aliens Among Us by Mac Tonnies, that we’ll also be discussing in this episode. You can find links to all of his work below.
BOOKS BY MIKE CLELLAND
The Messengers: Owls, Synchronicity and the UFO Abductee: https://a.co/d/ionYzML
The Unseen: https://a.co/d/8fI31Ly
FOLLOW MIKE CLELLAND
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ClellandMike
Website: https://mikeclelland.com/
GET THE EPISODE BRIEF
https://uforabbithole.com/podcast/an-interview-with-mike-clelland-owls-ufos-and-the-unfathomable-unseen
GET THE BOOK
Get a SIGNED COPY: uforabbithole.store
Get it on Amazon: a.co/d/64OSUTa
FOLLOW
Website: uforabbithole.com
Twitter: twitter.com/ufo_rabbit_hole
Facebook: facebook.com/uforabbithole
MUSIC
Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson")
![[UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 34: The Disclosure Field Guide [Pt 2]: Black Budgets & The Secret Space Program](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/yFdPX02QvFg/mqdefault.jpg "[UFO Rabbit Hole] Ep 34: The Disclosure Field Guide [Pt 2]: Black Budgets & The Secret Space Program
This episode was guest written by Mark Burchick. To find out more about Mark, click on the episode brief below.
Follow Mark on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MJBurchick
Today we are going to be continuing our Disclosure Field Guide series. As the disclosure narrative continues to unfold, this series seeks to offer a roadmap for those trying to make sense of just what exactly is going on in this strange and confounding moment in our human history.
In the first episode, we talked about how to deal with the ontological shock of recognizing that the world that we live in is not what we were told, and how to get reoriented within that new paradigm. In part two, we’re going to go a step further by diving into the history and structure of the institutionalized secrecy that has kept the reality of the UFO phenomenon hidden in plain sight for decades.
EPISODE BRIEF
https://uforabbithole.com/podcast/ep-34-the-disclosure-field-guide-pt-2-black-budgets-the-secret-space-program/
BECOME A PATRON
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Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.
Memberships start at just $5/month.
GET THE BOOK
Get a SIGNED COPY: https://uforabbithole.store
Get it on Amazon: https://a.co/d/64OSUTa
FOLLOW
Website: https://uforabbithole.com
Twitter: twitter.com/ufo_rabbit_hole
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![[UFO Rabbit Hole] Interview w/ Michael Masters: The Extratempestrial Model & The Future Human Past](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/yryV6kwo7AA/mqdefault.jpg "[UFO Rabbit Hole] Interview w/ Michael Masters: The Extratempestrial Model & The Future Human Past
Today, we’re circling back to an idea that we visited in one of the earliest episodes of the podcast—the extratempestrial model. Sometimes also referred to as the future human hypothesis, the extratempestrial model is the idea that the UFOs phenomenon might represent advanced humans and human descendents who are traveling here from another point in time.
I’ll admit to struggling with this idea at first. Time travel has always seemed a little too clunky and a little too hokey to be taken seriously. But as so often happens on this trip down the rabbit hole, the more I learned and the more my perspective began to swell and shift to accommodate the strange new realities I was exploring, the more what once seemed like a kind of crazy idea to me suddenly started to make a heck of a lot of sense. And I found that many of my objections had more to do with the limitations of my knowledge than the limitations of the extratempestrial model.
So I wanted to come back around to this idea, because there is a lot there to dig into, most of which didn’t make it into the initial episode. And there are some new and updated ideas that I think are really valuable in understanding the complexities of the phenomenon. And there’s no better way to take a deep dive into this topic than with one of the people who literally wrote the book on the extratempestrial model—Dr. Michael P. Masters.
Michael Masters is a professor of biological anthropology at Montana Technological University. He specializes in human evolution, osteology, and anatomical sciences. Dr. Master’s work related to the phenomenon explores the potential evolutionary trajectories of humankind, linking anthropological theory to hypotheses about extraterrestrial life. He is the author of several books on the topic including Identified Flying Objects: A Multidisciplinary Scientific Approach to the UFO Phenomenon, The Extratempestrial Model, and his latest, a satirical science fiction novel called, Revelation: The Future Human Past.
GET THE EPISODE BRIEF
https://uforabbithole.com/podcast/an-interview-with-michael-masters-the-extratempestrial-model-the-future-human-past/
GET THE BOOK
Get a SIGNED COPY: https://uforabbithole.store
Get it on Amazon: https://a.co/d/64OSUTa
FOLLOW
Website: https://uforabbithole.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ufo_rabbit_hole
Facebook: https://facebook.com/uforabbithole
MUSIC
Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson
TIMESTAMPS
00:30 - Introduction
07:20 - What Is The Extratempestrial Model?
09:50 - The Extratempestrial Model & The Interdimensional Hypothesis
11:29 - The Social & Biological Trends That Hint At The Extratempestrial Model
16:32 - Technology & The “Other”
20:48 - Technological Variability In Humans
21:02 - The Communication Problem
25:38 - How Technology Is Shaped By Biology
28:52 - Exotic Bipedal Beings
32:17 - Could Humanoid Beings Be The Result of Biomimicry?
37:08 - Are UFOs Time Machines?
43:50 - The Nimitz Incident
47:18 - Rethinking The Impossible
49:57 - The Block Universe
59:02 - Revelation: The Future Human Past")
