Uploaded July 2026 | Updated September 2026, 3 weeks ago
Sean Illing talks with neuroscientist Gregory Berns, author of The Self Delusion. Berns claims that the idea of a unified, persistent self is a kind of illusion, and that we are better understood as multiple selves at different moments in time, tied together by a story — which is what we call our identity. Sean and Greg also talk about whether the brain is a computer, how perception works, the limits of thinking too much about thinking, and what psychedelics can do to disrupt and change the stories we tell about ourselves.
This episode originally aired in November of 2022.
Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling)
Guest: Gregory Berns (@gberns), author; professor of psychology and distinguished professor of neuroeconomics, Emory University
00:00 Intro
06:34 The story we tell ourselves
10:38 The mystery of consciousness
17:32 Psychedelics and the self
25:49 We are constantly changing, even on a cellular level
34:54 Is the brain really like a computer?
39:41 How other people shape the stories we tell ourselves
We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at thegrayarea@vox.com or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show.
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Watch our full video catalog: goo.gl/IZONyE
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Sean Illing talks with neuroscientist Gregory Berns, author of The Self Delusion. Berns claims that the idea of a unified, persistent self is a kind of illusion, and that we are better understood as multiple selves at different moments in time, tied together by a story — which is what we call our identity. Sean and Greg also talk about whether the brain is a computer, how perception works, the limits of thinking too much about thinking, and what psychedelics can do to disrupt and change the stories we tell about ourselves.
This episode originally aired in November of 2022.
Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling)
Guest: Gregory Berns (@gberns), author; professor of psychology and distinguished professor of neuroeconomics, Emory University
00:00 Intro
06:34 The story we tell ourselves
10:38 The mystery of consciousness
17:32 Psychedelics and the self
25:49 We are constantly changing, even on a cellular level
34:54 Is the brain really like a computer?
39:41 How other people shape the stories we tell ourselves
We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at thegrayarea@vox.com or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show.
And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube.
Listen to The Gray Area ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members
Subscribe to our channel! goo.gl/0bsAjO
Vox.com is a news website that helps you cut through the noise and understand what's really driving the events in the headlines. Check out http://www.vox.com.
Watch our full video catalog: goo.gl/IZONyE
Follow Vox on Facebook: goo.gl/U2g06o
Or Twitter: goo.gl/XFrZ5H
