Uploaded August 2026 | Updated September 2026, 1 week ago
Professor George A. Bonanno is Professor of Clinical Psychology at Columbia University and one of the world's leading researchers on trauma, bereavement and psychological resilience. Over the past three decades, his research has challenged long-standing assumptions about how people respond to adversity, showing that resilience is often the most common outcome following bereavement, disaster and other potentially traumatic events. His work has had a major influence on research into trauma, grief, resilience and psychological adaptation.
In this conversation, we explore why most people recover after adversity, why trauma is not synonymous with the event itself, and how popular ideas about grief, hidden trauma and resilience often diverge from the evidence. George explains the four trajectories of recovery, the limitations of resilience questionnaires, why there is no universal "right" way to cope, and introduces his research on psychological flexibility as the key to adaptation. We also discuss The Body Keeps the Score, the Five Stages of Grief, why averages can mislead psychological science, how clinicians can avoid inadvertently causing harm, and what future generations may find hardest to believe about today's understanding of mental health.
00:00 – Introduction
01:57 – Why psychology became fascinated by trauma
03:55 – Why "potentially traumatic event" changes everything
08:20 – The four trajectories of recovery
11:30 – Supporting people without assuming damage
14:12 – The truth about the Five Stages of Grief
22:10 – Hidden trauma, concept creep & The Body Keeps the Score
27:59 – Why averages can mislead psychology
31:00 – Discovering resilience through longitudinal research
38:15 – What measuring people before adversity revealed
42:59 – The resilience paradox
50:45 – Why resilience questionnaires don't measure resilience
54:11 – There is no universally healthy coping strategy
58:08 – When avoidance is actually adaptive
59:37 – What future psychologists will think we got wrong
Connect with us:
freedompact.co.uk/newsletter (Healthy, Wealthy & Wise Newsletter)
Instagram.com/freedompactpod
twitter.com/freedompactpod
Email: freedompact@gmail.com (business enquiries, guest suggestions, appreciation, feedback, and anything else)
Connect with George:
scholar.google.com/citations?user=biNsmj8AAAAJ&hl=en (George's publications)
sites.google.com/view/georgeabonanno?usp=sharing (George's website)
Buy The End of Trauma: (sites.google.com/view/georgeabonanno/books/the-end-of-trauma?authuser=0)
Please note: we do not receive any commission from book sales and are not affiliated with the publisher or author beyond hosting this conversation.
Disclaimer: The Freedom Pact Podcast is provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to constitute, nor should it be relied upon as, medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the hosts or the podcast. Listeners should not disregard, delay, or substitute professional medical advice because of information discussed on the podcast or associated materials.
Professor George A. Bonanno is Professor of Clinical Psychology at Columbia University and one of the world's leading researchers on trauma, bereavement and psychological resilience. Over the past three decades, his research has challenged long-standing assumptions about how people respond to adversity, showing that resilience is often the most common outcome following bereavement, disaster and other potentially traumatic events. His work has had a major influence on research into trauma, grief, resilience and psychological adaptation.
In this conversation, we explore why most people recover after adversity, why trauma is not synonymous with the event itself, and how popular ideas about grief, hidden trauma and resilience often diverge from the evidence. George explains the four trajectories of recovery, the limitations of resilience questionnaires, why there is no universal "right" way to cope, and introduces his research on psychological flexibility as the key to adaptation. We also discuss The Body Keeps the Score, the Five Stages of Grief, why averages can mislead psychological science, how clinicians can avoid inadvertently causing harm, and what future generations may find hardest to believe about today's understanding of mental health.
00:00 – Introduction
01:57 – Why psychology became fascinated by trauma
03:55 – Why "potentially traumatic event" changes everything
08:20 – The four trajectories of recovery
11:30 – Supporting people without assuming damage
14:12 – The truth about the Five Stages of Grief
22:10 – Hidden trauma, concept creep & The Body Keeps the Score
27:59 – Why averages can mislead psychology
31:00 – Discovering resilience through longitudinal research
38:15 – What measuring people before adversity revealed
42:59 – The resilience paradox
50:45 – Why resilience questionnaires don't measure resilience
54:11 – There is no universally healthy coping strategy
58:08 – When avoidance is actually adaptive
59:37 – What future psychologists will think we got wrong
Connect with us:
freedompact.co.uk/newsletter (Healthy, Wealthy & Wise Newsletter)
Instagram.com/freedompactpod
twitter.com/freedompactpod
Email: freedompact@gmail.com (business enquiries, guest suggestions, appreciation, feedback, and anything else)
Connect with George:
scholar.google.com/citations?user=biNsmj8AAAAJ&hl=en (George's publications)
sites.google.com/view/georgeabonanno?usp=sharing (George's website)
Buy The End of Trauma: (sites.google.com/view/georgeabonanno/books/the-end-of-trauma?authuser=0)
Please note: we do not receive any commission from book sales and are not affiliated with the publisher or author beyond hosting this conversation.
Disclaimer: The Freedom Pact Podcast is provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to constitute, nor should it be relied upon as, medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the hosts or the podcast. Listeners should not disregard, delay, or substitute professional medical advice because of information discussed on the podcast or associated materials.
