Uploaded December 2025 | Updated September 2026, 13 hours ago
In today’s world, anyone serious about anti-imperialism, global development, and monetary sovereignty needs to break through the well-funded US propaganda machine and develop a fact-based, nuanced understanding of China.
To this end, Steve asked Yan Liang to come back to the podcast to look at China through the MMT lens, analyzing its economic management, global role, and response to Western villainization. They discuss China’s development ethos and describe China as a state that actively uses its monetary and fiscal sovereignty to guide development towards internal goals (poverty alleviation, technological self-reliance, common prosperity) and external partnership (Win-win cooperation, Belt and Road Initiative).
Illustrating the difference between state steering and the so-called “free market,” the conversation goes into China’s mobilization of real resources through strategic state guidance, like Five-Year Plans and state-owned enterprises in key sectors.
Yan talks about the use of capital controls and a managed exchange rate. She details lessons from 2015 and the application of MMT principles to insulate domestic policy from volatile external forces.
Without romanticizing China, Yan also walks through its real challenges. But from an MMT-aware lens, these are seen as problems of policy design and resource use – issues a sovereign, planning-oriented state can address – rather than proof of an impending collapse.
Yan Liang is Peter C and Bonnie S Kremer Chair Professor of Economics at Willamette University. She is also a Research Associate at the Levy Economics Institute, a Non-Resident Senior Fellow at the Global Development Policy Center (Boston University), and a Research Scholar of the Global Institute for Sustainable Prosperity.
Yan specializes in the Modern Monetary Theory (MMT), the Political Economy of China, Economic Development, and International Economics. Yan’s current research focuses on China’s development finance and industrial transformation, and China’s role in the global financial architecture.
linkedin.com/in/yan-liang-1355b91a2
@YanLian31677392 on X
Chapters:
Introduction & Guest Welcome
0:45 — Host introduces Yan Liang and sets the stage for the discussion.
China’s Economic Progress & Global Perceptions
0:45 – 3:25 — Discussion on China’s achievements, Western narratives, and the need for a balanced understanding.
China’s Development Model & Global Role
3:25 – 9:53 — China’s approach to development, poverty alleviation, and international partnerships.
Comparing US and Chinese Economic Policies
9:53 – 20:48 — State intervention, market controls, and policy differences between the US and China.
Currency, Capital Controls, and Economic Protection
20:48 – 38:55 — China’s currency management, capital controls, and lessons from financial crises.
China’s Global Financial Influence & MMT
38:55 – 52:11 — China’s use of monetary sovereignty, development finance, and international lending.
Debt, Lending, and the Dollar Trap
52:11 – 56:33 — Discussion on China’s foreign reserves, lending practices, and the push for RMB internationalization.
Challenges Facing China’s Economy
56:33 – 1:06:06 — Deflation, debt structure, real estate, demographics, and job creation.
Yan Liang’s Work & Closing Remarks
1:06:06 – 1:11:13 — Yan Liang shares her research, where to find her work, and the host wraps up the episode.
Weaponize Knowledge with Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
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We believe all materials used in this video fall under Fair Use as defined in Section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976.
#mmt
Weaponize Knowledge with Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Please help our Real Progressives efforts in spreading and become a monthly donor!
At PayPal
paypal.me/RealProgressives/25
At Patreon
patreon.com/realprogressives
Write for Real Progressives
realprogressives.org/submit-an-article
Visit our website:
realprogressives.org
Listen to our podcast:
realprogressives.org/macro-n-cheese-podcast
We believe all materials used in this video fall under Fair Use as defined in Section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976.
In today’s world, anyone serious about anti-imperialism, global development, and monetary sovereignty needs to break through the well-funded US propaganda machine and develop a fact-based, nuanced understanding of China.
To this end, Steve asked Yan Liang to come back to the podcast to look at China through the MMT lens, analyzing its economic management, global role, and response to Western villainization. They discuss China’s development ethos and describe China as a state that actively uses its monetary and fiscal sovereignty to guide development towards internal goals (poverty alleviation, technological self-reliance, common prosperity) and external partnership (Win-win cooperation, Belt and Road Initiative).
Illustrating the difference between state steering and the so-called “free market,” the conversation goes into China’s mobilization of real resources through strategic state guidance, like Five-Year Plans and state-owned enterprises in key sectors.
Yan talks about the use of capital controls and a managed exchange rate. She details lessons from 2015 and the application of MMT principles to insulate domestic policy from volatile external forces.
Without romanticizing China, Yan also walks through its real challenges. But from an MMT-aware lens, these are seen as problems of policy design and resource use – issues a sovereign, planning-oriented state can address – rather than proof of an impending collapse.
Yan Liang is Peter C and Bonnie S Kremer Chair Professor of Economics at Willamette University. She is also a Research Associate at the Levy Economics Institute, a Non-Resident Senior Fellow at the Global Development Policy Center (Boston University), and a Research Scholar of the Global Institute for Sustainable Prosperity.
Yan specializes in the Modern Monetary Theory (MMT), the Political Economy of China, Economic Development, and International Economics. Yan’s current research focuses on China’s development finance and industrial transformation, and China’s role in the global financial architecture.
linkedin.com/in/yan-liang-1355b91a2
@YanLian31677392 on X
Chapters:
Introduction & Guest Welcome
0:45 — Host introduces Yan Liang and sets the stage for the discussion.
China’s Economic Progress & Global Perceptions
0:45 – 3:25 — Discussion on China’s achievements, Western narratives, and the need for a balanced understanding.
China’s Development Model & Global Role
3:25 – 9:53 — China’s approach to development, poverty alleviation, and international partnerships.
Comparing US and Chinese Economic Policies
9:53 – 20:48 — State intervention, market controls, and policy differences between the US and China.
Currency, Capital Controls, and Economic Protection
20:48 – 38:55 — China’s currency management, capital controls, and lessons from financial crises.
China’s Global Financial Influence & MMT
38:55 – 52:11 — China’s use of monetary sovereignty, development finance, and international lending.
Debt, Lending, and the Dollar Trap
52:11 – 56:33 — Discussion on China’s foreign reserves, lending practices, and the push for RMB internationalization.
Challenges Facing China’s Economy
56:33 – 1:06:06 — Deflation, debt structure, real estate, demographics, and job creation.
Yan Liang’s Work & Closing Remarks
1:06:06 – 1:11:13 — Yan Liang shares her research, where to find her work, and the host wraps up the episode.
Weaponize Knowledge with Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Please help our Real Progressives efforts in spreading and become a monthly donor!
At PayPal
paypal.me/RealProgressives/25
At Patreon
patreon.com/realprogressives
Donorbox
donorbox.org/each-one-teach-one-3
Write for Real Progressives
realprogressives.org/submit-an-article
Visit our website:
realprogressives.org
Listen to our podcast:
realprogressives.org/macro-n-cheese-podcast
Subscribe to our Substack:
realprogressives.substack.com
We believe all materials used in this video fall under Fair Use as defined in Section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976.
#mmt
Weaponize Knowledge with Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Please help our Real Progressives efforts in spreading and become a monthly donor!
At PayPal
paypal.me/RealProgressives/25
At Patreon
patreon.com/realprogressives
Write for Real Progressives
realprogressives.org/submit-an-article
Visit our website:
realprogressives.org
Listen to our podcast:
realprogressives.org/macro-n-cheese-podcast
We believe all materials used in this video fall under Fair Use as defined in Section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976.
