Uploaded December 2025 | Updated September 2026, 2 weeks ago
*Get our 10 AI prompts to dominate SEO & AEO:* clickhubspot.com/ugm
Is SEO more relevant than we thought?
Ep. 385
Kipp, Kieran, and Ethan Smith, CEO of Graphite, dive into the data behind the real state of SEO, debunking the myths that SEO is dead and uncovering what’s really changing with the rise of answer engine optimization. Learn more on whether LLMs are really overtaking search, how marketers should invest between SEO and AEO, and the most repeatable tactics to rank #1 on Google and show up in AI-generated answers.
Mentions
Ethan Smith linkedin.com/in/ethanls
Graphite graphite.io
Ahrefs ahrefs.com
ChatGPT chatgpt.com
Grok grok.com
Claude claude.ai
Perplexity perplexity.ai
Timestamps
00:00 SEO vs. AEO: 2026 Guide
05:25 10 Blue Links Endures
07:11 SEO Timing for Startups
09:32 Data Proves Search Isn't Dead
14:21 SEO Trends and Myths Explained
15:49 Search vs LLM: Blended Strategy
20:48 Optimizing Content for AI Queries
22:26 Insights Beyond Panel Data
25:38 SEO Integration for Scale
31:29 Answer Optimization and Citations
34:20 Authority in Search vs AI
36:22 Optimizing Prompts Using Paid Search
39:35 Jeff Bezos & Bill Gates' Yacht Plans
42:58 Video as Key Data Source
Host Links:
📲Kipp Bodnar, twitter.com/kippbodnar
📲Kieran Flanagan, twitter.com/searchbrat
‘Marketing Against The Grain’ is a HubSpot Original Podcast // Brought to you by The HubSpot Podcast Network // Produced by Darren Clarke.
About the Show
Kipp Bodnar, HubSpot’s CMO and Kieran Flanagan Hubspot's SVP of Marketing, lead you down the rabbit hole of marketing trends, growth tactics and innovation. On the way you’ll pick up undiscovered strategies to give you that slight edge for success. These are not your typical twitter thread regurgitated marketing tactics that everyone is doing. These are new methods, with unfiltered examination of successful fresh ideas.
*Get our 10 AI prompts to dominate SEO & AEO:* clickhubspot.com/ugm
Is SEO more relevant than we thought?
Ep. 385
Kipp, Kieran, and Ethan Smith, CEO of Graphite, dive into the data behind the real state of SEO, debunking the myths that SEO is dead and uncovering what’s really changing with the rise of answer engine optimization. Learn more on whether LLMs are really overtaking search, how marketers should invest between SEO and AEO, and the most repeatable tactics to rank #1 on Google and show up in AI-generated answers.
Mentions
Ethan Smith linkedin.com/in/ethanls
Graphite graphite.io
Ahrefs ahrefs.com
ChatGPT chatgpt.com
Grok grok.com
Claude claude.ai
Perplexity perplexity.ai
Timestamps
00:00 SEO vs. AEO: 2026 Guide
05:25 10 Blue Links Endures
07:11 SEO Timing for Startups
09:32 Data Proves Search Isn't Dead
14:21 SEO Trends and Myths Explained
15:49 Search vs LLM: Blended Strategy
20:48 Optimizing Content for AI Queries
22:26 Insights Beyond Panel Data
25:38 SEO Integration for Scale
31:29 Answer Optimization and Citations
34:20 Authority in Search vs AI
36:22 Optimizing Prompts Using Paid Search
39:35 Jeff Bezos & Bill Gates' Yacht Plans
42:58 Video as Key Data Source
Host Links:
📲Kipp Bodnar, twitter.com/kippbodnar
📲Kieran Flanagan, twitter.com/searchbrat
‘Marketing Against The Grain’ is a HubSpot Original Podcast // Brought to you by The HubSpot Podcast Network // Produced by Darren Clarke.
About the Show
Kipp Bodnar, HubSpot’s CMO and Kieran Flanagan Hubspot's SVP of Marketing, lead you down the rabbit hole of marketing trends, growth tactics and innovation. On the way you’ll pick up undiscovered strategies to give you that slight edge for success. These are not your typical twitter thread regurgitated marketing tactics that everyone is doing. These are new methods, with unfiltered examination of successful fresh ideas.
