Uploaded January 2026 | Updated September 2026, 3 weeks ago
Use code ANDREWGOLD20 for 20% off your first month at Heights: heights.com/andrewgold
In this episode of Heretics, I sit down with former UK prison governor Vanessa Frake to talk about what she says happened as Islam grew inside British prisons - and why Tommy Robinson had to be separated for safety.
Vanessa’s book: The Governor - amazon.co.uk/GOVERNOR-unbelievable-Britains-notorious-BESTSELLER/dp/0008390053/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0
Vanessa worked at Holloway and Wormwood Scrubs, and describes what she witnessed behind the walls - the changing prison population, religious tensions, terrorism cases, staff shortages, and the culture of fear around complaints, accusations, and “saying the wrong thing.”
We also get into the subjects the public argues about endlessly - but rarely hears from someone who actually ran the place.
In this conversation:
- Vanessa’s claim that Muslim prisoner numbers surged at Wormwood Scrubs
- Why she says they had to split Muslim services and bring in another imam
- What she says about Tommy Robinson in prison and why separation happens
- The reality of foreign national prisoners in London jails - and deportation delays
- Prison staffing, recruitment standards, and why “money cuts = standards drop”
- Female officers sleeping with prisoners, manipulation, and what the media gets wrong
- The trans prisoner “minefield” and how placements were handled
- Drugs dogs, searches, and the constant security trade-offs
- “Monster Mansion” (Wakefield), high-security prisons, and what murder inside means
- Why Vanessa thinks the public is split on prison - and what rehabilitation should be
If you value long-form conversations that go where others won’t, subscribe and share this episode.
Chapters:
00:00 Islam in prison and rising numbers
04:00 Wormwood Scrubs, services split, security pressures
06:30 Terrorism cases and “prison reflects society”
18:50 Foreign national prisoners and deportation backlog
23:20 Staff shortages and falling recruitment standards
31:40 Officers, prisoners, and why the media focuses on women
37:10 Complaints, fear, and the “minefield” topics
37:15 Trans prisoners and placement policy
42:00 Mixing lifers and vulnerable prisoners
44:00 Wakefield “Monster Mansion” and murders inside
46:10 “Potting” and assaults on staff
48:20 Rose West, Myra Hindley, and prison psychology
55:00 What the public gets wrong about prisons
#Heretics
#AndrewGold
#UKPrisons
Use code ANDREWGOLD20 for 20% off your first month at Heights: heights.com/andrewgold
In this episode of Heretics, I sit down with former UK prison governor Vanessa Frake to talk about what she says happened as Islam grew inside British prisons - and why Tommy Robinson had to be separated for safety.
Vanessa’s book: The Governor - amazon.co.uk/GOVERNOR-unbelievable-Britains-notorious-BESTSELLER/dp/0008390053/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0
Vanessa worked at Holloway and Wormwood Scrubs, and describes what she witnessed behind the walls - the changing prison population, religious tensions, terrorism cases, staff shortages, and the culture of fear around complaints, accusations, and “saying the wrong thing.”
We also get into the subjects the public argues about endlessly - but rarely hears from someone who actually ran the place.
In this conversation:
- Vanessa’s claim that Muslim prisoner numbers surged at Wormwood Scrubs
- Why she says they had to split Muslim services and bring in another imam
- What she says about Tommy Robinson in prison and why separation happens
- The reality of foreign national prisoners in London jails - and deportation delays
- Prison staffing, recruitment standards, and why “money cuts = standards drop”
- Female officers sleeping with prisoners, manipulation, and what the media gets wrong
- The trans prisoner “minefield” and how placements were handled
- Drugs dogs, searches, and the constant security trade-offs
- “Monster Mansion” (Wakefield), high-security prisons, and what murder inside means
- Why Vanessa thinks the public is split on prison - and what rehabilitation should be
If you value long-form conversations that go where others won’t, subscribe and share this episode.
Chapters:
00:00 Islam in prison and rising numbers
04:00 Wormwood Scrubs, services split, security pressures
06:30 Terrorism cases and “prison reflects society”
18:50 Foreign national prisoners and deportation backlog
23:20 Staff shortages and falling recruitment standards
31:40 Officers, prisoners, and why the media focuses on women
37:10 Complaints, fear, and the “minefield” topics
37:15 Trans prisoners and placement policy
42:00 Mixing lifers and vulnerable prisoners
44:00 Wakefield “Monster Mansion” and murders inside
46:10 “Potting” and assaults on staff
48:20 Rose West, Myra Hindley, and prison psychology
55:00 What the public gets wrong about prisons
#Heretics
#AndrewGold
#UKPrisons
