Uploaded June 2026 | Updated September 2026, 1 week ago
How Are Protestants Navigating a Moral and Spiritual Vacuum in Evangelicalism?
Host Curtis Chang talks with former White House staffer and Atlantic columnist Pete Wehner about why Pope Leo XIV is resonating with Protestants and evangelicals despite historic theological divides. Together, they explore the Pope’s moral leadership while contrasting his dignified, intellectually grounded public witness with Donald Trump’s increasingly erratic influence on evangelical political culture. The conversation examines a perceived spiritual leadership vacuum within Protestantism and calls pastors, congregations, and followers of Jesus to cultivate beauty, goodness, and truth as a long-term path toward renewing Christian public witness.
00:34 - Introduction to Pope Leo XIV's Influence
02:29 - Is There a Protestant Appreciation for Catholicism?
03:59 - What Is This Pope's Impact on Public Theology?
06:06 - Papal Influence in Past Administrations
11:19 - The Collapse of Evangelical Public Theology
14:18 - Can Protestants Still Exert Moral Influence?
21:16 - The "Mad King" and Trump's Cognitive Decline
28:42 - What Can Pastors Do?
32:00 - The Importance of Beauty, Goodness, and Truth
37:08 - What Is The Pope’s Transcendent Influence?
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Sign up for The After Party: after-party.org
Sign up for The Good List: goodfaith.org/thegoodlist
Referenced in the Episode:
Pete Wehner’s article “The American Pope vs. the American President”: theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/04/pope-leo-trump-iran/686964
Pete Wehner’s article “The Apotheosis of Donald Trump”: theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/06/trump-decline-ufc-fight/687582
Pope Leo XIV’s Encyclical Letter: Magnifica Humanitas: https://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiv/en/encyclicals/documents/20260515-magnifica-humanitas.html
The Madness of King George (YouTube free with ads): youtube.com/watch?v=hVhxuKFzc7s
David Bentley Hart’s The Beauty of the Infinite: amazon.com/Beauty-Infinite-Aesthetics-Christian-Truth/dp/080282921X
Wordsworth's The Prelude, Book 14: poetryverse.com/william-wordsworth-poems/prelude-book-14
Good Faith’s course: The After Party: after-party.org
Scriptures Referenced:
1 Timothy 3 (ESV): esv.org/1+Timothy+3
Titus 1 (ESV): esv.org/Titus+1
Protestant and Catholic Leaders Referenced:
Pope John Paul II: https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en.html
Pope Benedict XVI: https://www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en.html
Pope Francis: https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en.html
Reinhold Niebuhr: https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/niebuhr-reinhold
C.S. Lewis: cslewisinstitute.org/c-s-lewis-life-works
Billy Graham: billygrahamlibrary.org/billy-graham
Dietrich Bonhoeffer: encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/dietrich-bonhoeffer
John Stott: johnstott.org/life
Karl Barth: https://barth.ptsem.edu/biography/
Oliver O’Donovan: gifford.wp.st-andrews.ac.uk/about-oliver-odonovan
Rowan Williams: christs.cam.ac.uk/college/people/fellows/rt-revd-and-rt-hon-lord-williams-oystermouth-dr-rowan-williams
Dr. Tim Keller: timothykeller.com
More from Pete Wehner:
Pete Wehner’s articles at The Atlantic: theatlantic.com/author/peter-wehner
Pete Wehner’s opinion pieces at The New York Times: nytimes.com/column/peter-wehner
Follow Us:
Good Faith on Instagram: instagram.com/goodfaithnetwork
Good Faith on X (formerly Twitter): https://x.com/_good_faith
Good Faith on Facebook: facebook.com/goodfaithpod
The Good Faith Podcast is a production of a 501(c)(3) nonpartisan organization that does not engage in any political campaign activity to support or oppose any candidate for public office. Any views and opinions expressed by any guests on this program are solely those of the individuals and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Good Faith.
How Are Protestants Navigating a Moral and Spiritual Vacuum in Evangelicalism?
Host Curtis Chang talks with former White House staffer and Atlantic columnist Pete Wehner about why Pope Leo XIV is resonating with Protestants and evangelicals despite historic theological divides. Together, they explore the Pope’s moral leadership while contrasting his dignified, intellectually grounded public witness with Donald Trump’s increasingly erratic influence on evangelical political culture. The conversation examines a perceived spiritual leadership vacuum within Protestantism and calls pastors, congregations, and followers of Jesus to cultivate beauty, goodness, and truth as a long-term path toward renewing Christian public witness.
00:34 - Introduction to Pope Leo XIV's Influence
02:29 - Is There a Protestant Appreciation for Catholicism?
03:59 - What Is This Pope's Impact on Public Theology?
06:06 - Papal Influence in Past Administrations
11:19 - The Collapse of Evangelical Public Theology
14:18 - Can Protestants Still Exert Moral Influence?
21:16 - The "Mad King" and Trump's Cognitive Decline
28:42 - What Can Pastors Do?
32:00 - The Importance of Beauty, Goodness, and Truth
37:08 - What Is The Pope’s Transcendent Influence?
Sign up for the Anxiety Opportunity Course Use the code: Goodfaith: goodfaith.org/product/the-anxiety-opportunity-course/?utm_source=ShowNotes&utm_medium=PodAd&utm_campaign=AnxietyFreePod
Sign up for The After Party: after-party.org
Sign up for The Good List: goodfaith.org/thegoodlist
Referenced in the Episode:
Pete Wehner’s article “The American Pope vs. the American President”: theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/04/pope-leo-trump-iran/686964
Pete Wehner’s article “The Apotheosis of Donald Trump”: theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/06/trump-decline-ufc-fight/687582
Pope Leo XIV’s Encyclical Letter: Magnifica Humanitas: https://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiv/en/encyclicals/documents/20260515-magnifica-humanitas.html
The Madness of King George (YouTube free with ads): youtube.com/watch?v=hVhxuKFzc7s
David Bentley Hart’s The Beauty of the Infinite: amazon.com/Beauty-Infinite-Aesthetics-Christian-Truth/dp/080282921X
Wordsworth's The Prelude, Book 14: poetryverse.com/william-wordsworth-poems/prelude-book-14
Good Faith’s course: The After Party: after-party.org
Scriptures Referenced:
1 Timothy 3 (ESV): esv.org/1+Timothy+3
Titus 1 (ESV): esv.org/Titus+1
Protestant and Catholic Leaders Referenced:
Pope John Paul II: https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en.html
Pope Benedict XVI: https://www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en.html
Pope Francis: https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en.html
Reinhold Niebuhr: https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/niebuhr-reinhold
C.S. Lewis: cslewisinstitute.org/c-s-lewis-life-works
Billy Graham: billygrahamlibrary.org/billy-graham
Dietrich Bonhoeffer: encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/dietrich-bonhoeffer
John Stott: johnstott.org/life
Karl Barth: https://barth.ptsem.edu/biography/
Oliver O’Donovan: gifford.wp.st-andrews.ac.uk/about-oliver-odonovan
Rowan Williams: christs.cam.ac.uk/college/people/fellows/rt-revd-and-rt-hon-lord-williams-oystermouth-dr-rowan-williams
Dr. Tim Keller: timothykeller.com
More from Pete Wehner:
Pete Wehner’s articles at The Atlantic: theatlantic.com/author/peter-wehner
Pete Wehner’s opinion pieces at The New York Times: nytimes.com/column/peter-wehner
Follow Us:
Good Faith on Instagram: instagram.com/goodfaithnetwork
Good Faith on X (formerly Twitter): https://x.com/_good_faith
Good Faith on Facebook: facebook.com/goodfaithpod
The Good Faith Podcast is a production of a 501(c)(3) nonpartisan organization that does not engage in any political campaign activity to support or oppose any candidate for public office. Any views and opinions expressed by any guests on this program are solely those of the individuals and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Good Faith.
