Uploaded June 2023 | Updated September 2026, 1 hour ago

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Last episode, we dug into the history of the viability line, established in Roe v. Wade. Now that the Court has thrown out that line, lawmakers across the country are scrambling to write new lines around when it’s legal to get an abortion — if it’s legal at all. But what if abortion law wasn’t dictated by the rules of men at the Supreme Court?

In this second of our two-part series, we ask: what if abortion law was shaped by people who know what it’s like to be pregnant, to have abortions, and to lose pregnancies? We hear from women on the front lines of the next legal battles over abortion in America, and ask, if not viability, then what?

CONTENT WARNING: This episode has stories of abortion and pregnancy loss.

Voices in the episode include:
• Mary J. Browning — pro bono lawyer for The Justice Foundation
• Dr. Shelley Sella — OBGYN (retired) 
• Greer Donley — University of Pittsburgh School of Law professor
• Jill Wieber Lens — University of Arkansas School of Law professor

Learn more:
• Listen to Part 1: The Viability Line — youtu.be/5aoyZoFWCKg
• 1973: Roe v. Wade — oyez.org/cases/1971/70-18
• 2022: Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization — oyez.org/cases/2021/19-1392

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About More Perfect:
The Supreme Court was designed to be above the fray of politics. But at a time when politics seems to seep into every pore of American life, are the nine justices living up to that promise? More Perfect is a guide to the current moment on the Court. We bring the highest court of the land down to earth, telling the human dramas at the Court that shape so many aspects of American life — from our religious freedom to our artistic expression, from our reproductive choices to our voice in democracy.

The fourth season, hosted by Julia Longoria (a former More Perfect producer) will revisit the human dramas at the Court that are driving change around core aspects of American life today — from our religious freedom to our artistic expression; from our reproductive choices to our voice in democracy.

Supreme Court archival audio comes from Oyez®, a free law project by Justia and the Legal Information Institute of Cornell Law School.

Support for More Perfect is provided in part by The Smart Family Fund.

Episode illustration by Candice Evers candiceevers.com