Uploaded November 2025 | Updated September 2026, 3 weeks ago
John J. Lennon, currently incarcerated at Sing Sing Correctional Facility, discusses The Tragedy of True Crime: Four Guilty Men and the Stories That Define Us, arguing that true crime's fixation on innocence obscures the harder stories of guilt, punishment, and change. He describes refusing to be branded "Inside Evil" on Chris Cuomo's show—and how that exploitation pushed him toward critiquing the genre from within. Lennon explains why he writes himself beneath the other men he profiles—even as he's "owning [his] sh*t on the page" so he can have a life when he gets out. Also: an analysis of the odd-bedfellows coalition pushing to force a House vote on releasing the Epstein case files.
This interview is from a Full episode of The Gist Podcast, Hosted by Mike Pesca.
🎧Listen Here👉open.spotify.com/episode/3BptQDXnncEQO4wRxjv8Xp?si=eTi9RPlcTNCKn7WtnW76fA
Follow us:
INSTAGRAM:
/ pescagist
TWITTER:
https://x.com/PescaGist
https://x.com/pescami
Visit Mike's website:
mikepesca.com
Join the "Pesca Profundities" membership and get access to the Gist List Newsletter:
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Get a premium edition of the podcast and help support Mike's work:
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_______________________
CREDITS:
Creator & Host:
Mike Pesca
Producer:
Corey Wara
TIMECODES:
0:00 The setup
1:04 Why “guilty men” and “us” matter in true crime
3:18 What’s wrong with today’s true crime industry
4:54 Inside Evil: being framed as “evil” on TV
7:07 Lifestyle murder and the killing that sent him to prison
10:48 Prison pecking order and getting stabbed in Attica
13:45 How the Cuomo segment pushed him to critique true crime
17:12 Writing The Tragedy of True Crime and choosing four guilty men
21:35 True crime fame, status, and how TV portrayals land inside prison
24:18 Being an in-prison journalist and living with your sources
26:20 Prison officials, Sports Illustrated, and unexpected “grace”
28:06 Running a book tour from inside Sing Sing
30:02 Tablets, free phone calls, and the business of prison tech
32:02 Can we change the narrative of true crime?
34:09 Narrative, forgiveness, and why parole can feel arbitrary
36:23 Who gets a second chance when introspection is hard
39:06 Closing: 24 years in and what Lennon wants this book to do
John J. Lennon, currently incarcerated at Sing Sing Correctional Facility, discusses The Tragedy of True Crime: Four Guilty Men and the Stories That Define Us, arguing that true crime's fixation on innocence obscures the harder stories of guilt, punishment, and change. He describes refusing to be branded "Inside Evil" on Chris Cuomo's show—and how that exploitation pushed him toward critiquing the genre from within. Lennon explains why he writes himself beneath the other men he profiles—even as he's "owning [his] sh*t on the page" so he can have a life when he gets out. Also: an analysis of the odd-bedfellows coalition pushing to force a House vote on releasing the Epstein case files.
This interview is from a Full episode of The Gist Podcast, Hosted by Mike Pesca.
🎧Listen Here👉open.spotify.com/episode/3BptQDXnncEQO4wRxjv8Xp?si=eTi9RPlcTNCKn7WtnW76fA
Follow us:
INSTAGRAM:
/ pescagist
TWITTER:
https://x.com/PescaGist
https://x.com/pescami
Visit Mike's website:
mikepesca.com
Join the "Pesca Profundities" membership and get access to the Gist List Newsletter:
mikepesca.substack.com
Get a premium edition of the podcast and help support Mike's work:
subscribe.mikepesca.com
_______________________
CREDITS:
Creator & Host:
Mike Pesca
Producer:
Corey Wara
TIMECODES:
0:00 The setup
1:04 Why “guilty men” and “us” matter in true crime
3:18 What’s wrong with today’s true crime industry
4:54 Inside Evil: being framed as “evil” on TV
7:07 Lifestyle murder and the killing that sent him to prison
10:48 Prison pecking order and getting stabbed in Attica
13:45 How the Cuomo segment pushed him to critique true crime
17:12 Writing The Tragedy of True Crime and choosing four guilty men
21:35 True crime fame, status, and how TV portrayals land inside prison
24:18 Being an in-prison journalist and living with your sources
26:20 Prison officials, Sports Illustrated, and unexpected “grace”
28:06 Running a book tour from inside Sing Sing
30:02 Tablets, free phone calls, and the business of prison tech
32:02 Can we change the narrative of true crime?
34:09 Narrative, forgiveness, and why parole can feel arbitrary
36:23 Who gets a second chance when introspection is hard
39:06 Closing: 24 years in and what Lennon wants this book to do
