Kevigen of Alexandria | Necromancy in the writings of the Church Fathers, or, why I think that apologists need to chill. @Kevigen | Uploaded 2 months ago | Updated 7 hours ago
There are a few things that I didn't even get around to in my script, so I am going to leave them here.
In the City of God part, Augustine is writing about Numa Pompilius as if Numa was a real, historical King. Numa was not. Numa never existed. Its funny, because Augustine points out, in chapter 35, that it is believed that Numa Pompilius married a nymph, and so, Augustine points out that legends can grow over time. Little did Augustine know that the entire story of Numa Pompilius is legend, not just the part about him marrying a nymph.
For reference, when I called Numa the "second king of Rome", I meant "the successor to Romulus", who was also not a real, historical person. The listener with an interest in Roman myth may have picked that up already.
Also, I didn't spend any time at all talking about how Augustine is kind of being a skeptic about the pagan gods in City of God. He is reasoning out why the pagan Gods are all false, and its kinda cool reading it and getting into his head. I am afraid that someone watching my video and not reading this part here might think that I think that City of God is super lame and stuff, but I actually like it! Its neat!
Let me also add here something about the "Four Winds" that Irenaeus mentions in Against Heresies (ie, there can only be four gospels because there are four winds). On my reddit post, someone was telling me that Irenaeus's mentioning of the Four Winds was a callback to the book of Revelation:
"And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree."
Rev 7:1
I, however, don't think that Irenaeus was calling back to Revelation, necessarily. Rather, the Four Winds were just a popular conception of like, how the world worked, back then. The earliest reference that we have to the Four Winds is from tablet KN Fp 13, dated to 1450-1375 BC. Virgil's Aenead talks about the Four Winds too, which was written only a few decades before Jesus would have been born. The Four Winds are also mentioned in a few OT books, like Daniel, Zechariah, Jeremiah and Hosea.
OK, that is probably good for now. I spent a decent while reading these books in order to come up with a script on necromancy, but I tend to read quickly and then forget quickly, so, if anyone wants to challenge my understandings anywhere, please do! The odds of me having misinterpreted something in here is probably pretty decent haha!
Chapters:
0:00 Suan Sonna and the Limit of Apologetics
4:31 Weird Reasoning: Four Zones, Four Winds, Four Gospels
6:55 Weird Reasoning: Sexual Reproduction, therefore, Resurrection
9:38 Necromancy: Augustine of Hippo
13:03 Necromancy: Justin Martyr
15:22 Necromancy: Pseudo-Clement of Rome
18:29 Aquinas, Faith and Humility
22:22 Post Script: Reddit Roundup
Works Cited:
The Church Fathers. The Complete Works of the Church Fathers: A total of 64 authors, and over 2,500 works of the Early Christian Church. Amazon.com. Kindle Edition.
(Specifically, Against Heresies, City of God, First Apology, and Recognitions)
Summa Theologiae II-II, Q. 1, Art. 5, reply obj. 1
newadvent.org/summa/3001.htm#article5
There are a few things that I didn't even get around to in my script, so I am going to leave them here.
In the City of God part, Augustine is writing about Numa Pompilius as if Numa was a real, historical King. Numa was not. Numa never existed. Its funny, because Augustine points out, in chapter 35, that it is believed that Numa Pompilius married a nymph, and so, Augustine points out that legends can grow over time. Little did Augustine know that the entire story of Numa Pompilius is legend, not just the part about him marrying a nymph.
For reference, when I called Numa the "second king of Rome", I meant "the successor to Romulus", who was also not a real, historical person. The listener with an interest in Roman myth may have picked that up already.
Also, I didn't spend any time at all talking about how Augustine is kind of being a skeptic about the pagan gods in City of God. He is reasoning out why the pagan Gods are all false, and its kinda cool reading it and getting into his head. I am afraid that someone watching my video and not reading this part here might think that I think that City of God is super lame and stuff, but I actually like it! Its neat!
Let me also add here something about the "Four Winds" that Irenaeus mentions in Against Heresies (ie, there can only be four gospels because there are four winds). On my reddit post, someone was telling me that Irenaeus's mentioning of the Four Winds was a callback to the book of Revelation:
"And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree."
Rev 7:1
I, however, don't think that Irenaeus was calling back to Revelation, necessarily. Rather, the Four Winds were just a popular conception of like, how the world worked, back then. The earliest reference that we have to the Four Winds is from tablet KN Fp 13, dated to 1450-1375 BC. Virgil's Aenead talks about the Four Winds too, which was written only a few decades before Jesus would have been born. The Four Winds are also mentioned in a few OT books, like Daniel, Zechariah, Jeremiah and Hosea.
OK, that is probably good for now. I spent a decent while reading these books in order to come up with a script on necromancy, but I tend to read quickly and then forget quickly, so, if anyone wants to challenge my understandings anywhere, please do! The odds of me having misinterpreted something in here is probably pretty decent haha!
Chapters:
0:00 Suan Sonna and the Limit of Apologetics
4:31 Weird Reasoning: Four Zones, Four Winds, Four Gospels
6:55 Weird Reasoning: Sexual Reproduction, therefore, Resurrection
9:38 Necromancy: Augustine of Hippo
13:03 Necromancy: Justin Martyr
15:22 Necromancy: Pseudo-Clement of Rome
18:29 Aquinas, Faith and Humility
22:22 Post Script: Reddit Roundup
Works Cited:
The Church Fathers. The Complete Works of the Church Fathers: A total of 64 authors, and over 2,500 works of the Early Christian Church. Amazon.com. Kindle Edition.
(Specifically, Against Heresies, City of God, First Apology, and Recognitions)
Summa Theologiae II-II, Q. 1, Art. 5, reply obj. 1
newadvent.org/summa/3001.htm#article5
