Uploaded May 2026 | Updated September 2026, 2 weeks ago
Welcome to Episode 73 in our LDS Discussions series!
In this episode, we explore the long history of fraud, forgery, and "discernment" within Mormon history –from Joseph Smith’s treasure digging and the Kinderhook Plates to the Salamander Letter, Paul Dunn, Tim Ballard, and Jodi Hildebrandt.
We discuss why people believe extraordinary claims, the role of critical thinking and skepticism, and whether church leaders who claim divine guidance have actually demonstrated the “Gift of Discernment” they preach about. Along the way, we examine the Book of Abraham, the Kinderhook Plates controversy, Mark Hofmann’s forged documents, hidden church history, and modern scandals that continue to raise difficult questions for believers and critics alike.
The episode also looks at how faith can remain resilient even after exposure to false claims, and why many argue that institutional dishonesty –rather than belief itself –is the deeper issue.
Topics include: Joseph Smith’s treasure digging, the Book of Abraham facsimiles, how Elder Oaks defended the Salamander Letter, and the hiding of early Mormon documents. This discussion asks a central question: If church leaders claim special spiritual discernment, why were so many frauds, forgeries, and harmful figures embraced or defended for so long?
If you enjoy long-form Mormon history and analysis, consider subscribing and supporting the channel.
If you have thoughts on other topics you wish for us to cover, please leave them in the comments!
___________________
Time Codes
00:00:00 - Introductions
00:04:55 - Correction from Dan Vogel
00:06:40 - Utah and white-collar fraud
00:14:57 - Josiah Stowell testimony
00:24:45 - Clip from Elder Bednar
00:25:32 - Clip from Sheri Dew
00:30:34 - Clip from David Moore
00:33:56 - Book of Abraham
00:40:06 - New York Times (1912)
00:44:13 - Church Essay
00:47:12 - Kinderhook Plates
00:56:24 - Fugate’s confession
00:59:08 - Improvement Era (1962)
01:05:42 - Salamander Letter
01:14:34 - First Presidency Statement
01:18:50 - Hinckley’s - Keep the Faith
01:20:40 - Dallin H. Oaks defending the Salamander Letter
01:23:56 - Salamander in the 1828 Dictionary
01:27:54 - Forgery created by Hofmann
01:29:48 - Paul Dunn
01:38:59 - Paul Dunn’s Apology
01:44:09 - Tim Ballard
01:45:55 - Clip of Tim Ballard
01:46:31 - Church denounces Tim Ballard
01:50:32 - Sharing tithing funds
01:53:20 - Jodi Hildebrandt
02:02:52 - Conclusion
-----------
At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.
Our overall mission is to:
1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology
2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis
3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions
🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today
One-time or recurring donations: donorbox.org/mormon-stories?default_interval=m
Patreon: patreon.com/mormonstories
Venmo: account.venmo.com/u/mormonstories
Paypal: paypal.me/mormonstories
Join this channel to get access to perks:
youtube.com/channel/UCx6OgmoqJbOVRq-Lv1P7SzA/join
Our Platforms:
🌐Mormon Stories Blog: mormonstories.org/episodes
🎙️Patreon: patreon.com/mormonstories
✳️Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/4sDzk7dRjODTSEqzZKZJzk?si=148b0efc1ccc4404&nd=1
🍎Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mormon-stories-lds/id312094772
🖼️Instagram: instagram.com/mormstories
📱TikTok: tiktok.com/@mormonstoriespodcast
🎮Discord: discord.com/invite/kuX5p6yyjF
Contact us:
📧 MormonStories@gmail.com
📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117
Welcome to Episode 73 in our LDS Discussions series!
In this episode, we explore the long history of fraud, forgery, and "discernment" within Mormon history –from Joseph Smith’s treasure digging and the Kinderhook Plates to the Salamander Letter, Paul Dunn, Tim Ballard, and Jodi Hildebrandt.
We discuss why people believe extraordinary claims, the role of critical thinking and skepticism, and whether church leaders who claim divine guidance have actually demonstrated the “Gift of Discernment” they preach about. Along the way, we examine the Book of Abraham, the Kinderhook Plates controversy, Mark Hofmann’s forged documents, hidden church history, and modern scandals that continue to raise difficult questions for believers and critics alike.
The episode also looks at how faith can remain resilient even after exposure to false claims, and why many argue that institutional dishonesty –rather than belief itself –is the deeper issue.
Topics include: Joseph Smith’s treasure digging, the Book of Abraham facsimiles, how Elder Oaks defended the Salamander Letter, and the hiding of early Mormon documents. This discussion asks a central question: If church leaders claim special spiritual discernment, why were so many frauds, forgeries, and harmful figures embraced or defended for so long?
If you enjoy long-form Mormon history and analysis, consider subscribing and supporting the channel.
If you have thoughts on other topics you wish for us to cover, please leave them in the comments!
___________________
Time Codes
00:00:00 - Introductions
00:04:55 - Correction from Dan Vogel
00:06:40 - Utah and white-collar fraud
00:14:57 - Josiah Stowell testimony
00:24:45 - Clip from Elder Bednar
00:25:32 - Clip from Sheri Dew
00:30:34 - Clip from David Moore
00:33:56 - Book of Abraham
00:40:06 - New York Times (1912)
00:44:13 - Church Essay
00:47:12 - Kinderhook Plates
00:56:24 - Fugate’s confession
00:59:08 - Improvement Era (1962)
01:05:42 - Salamander Letter
01:14:34 - First Presidency Statement
01:18:50 - Hinckley’s - Keep the Faith
01:20:40 - Dallin H. Oaks defending the Salamander Letter
01:23:56 - Salamander in the 1828 Dictionary
01:27:54 - Forgery created by Hofmann
01:29:48 - Paul Dunn
01:38:59 - Paul Dunn’s Apology
01:44:09 - Tim Ballard
01:45:55 - Clip of Tim Ballard
01:46:31 - Church denounces Tim Ballard
01:50:32 - Sharing tithing funds
01:53:20 - Jodi Hildebrandt
02:02:52 - Conclusion
-----------
At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.
Our overall mission is to:
1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology
2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis
3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions
🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today
One-time or recurring donations: donorbox.org/mormon-stories?default_interval=m
Patreon: patreon.com/mormonstories
Venmo: account.venmo.com/u/mormonstories
Paypal: paypal.me/mormonstories
Join this channel to get access to perks:
youtube.com/channel/UCx6OgmoqJbOVRq-Lv1P7SzA/join
Our Platforms:
🌐Mormon Stories Blog: mormonstories.org/episodes
🎙️Patreon: patreon.com/mormonstories
✳️Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/4sDzk7dRjODTSEqzZKZJzk?si=148b0efc1ccc4404&nd=1
🍎Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mormon-stories-lds/id312094772
🖼️Instagram: instagram.com/mormstories
📱TikTok: tiktok.com/@mormonstoriespodcast
🎮Discord: discord.com/invite/kuX5p6yyjF
Contact us:
📧 MormonStories@gmail.com
📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117
