Uploaded April 2026 | Updated September 2026, 2 weeks ago
From the Radiolab podcast: This week, in an episode we first aired in 2022, we flip the Disney story of life on its head thanks to a barrel of seawater, a 1970s era computer, and underwater geysers. It’s the chaos of life.
Latif, Lulu and our senior producer Matt Kielty were all sitting on their own little stories until they got thrown into the studio and had their cherished beliefs about the shape of life put on a collision course. From an accidental study of sea creatures, to the ambitions of Stephen J Gould, to an undercooked theory that captured the world’s imagination, we undo the seeming order of the living world and try to make some music out of the wreckage. (Bonus: Learn how Francis Crick really thought life got started on this planet.)
EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by Latif Nasser, Matt Kielty, Heather Radke, Lulu Miller and Candice Wang
Produced by Matt Kielty and Simon Adler
with help from Arianne Wack
Original music and sound design contributed by Matt Kilety, Simon Adler, Alan Goffinski and Jeremy Bloom
EPISODE CITATIONS:
Articles -
Chaos in a long-term experiment with a plankton community (zpr.io/j6sYXKfDzPCG), by Benincà, E., Huisman, J., Heerkloss, R. et al. Nature
Chaos theory discloses triggers and drivers of plankton dynamics in stable environment (zpr.io/qHKENA3SJ8ML), by Telesh IV, Schubert H, Joehnk KD, Heerkloss R, Schumann R, Feike M, Schoor A, Skarlato SO. Sci Rep.
Books -
Full House (zpr.io/pMQZfyPcRzD4), by Stephen Jay Gould
Extinction: Bad Genes or Bad Luck? (zpr.io/pPVNugUKWpi4), by David M. Raup
Rereading the Fossil Record: The Growth of Paleobiology as an Evolutionary Discipline (zpr.io/YBjJxuXjydPN), by David Sepkoski
The Vital Question: Energy, Evolution, and the Origins of Complex Life (zpr.io/LzfueEqUWNHb), by Nick Lane
Life Itself: Its Origin and Nature (zpr.io/KPZf57eEVMBX), by Francis Crick
🎧 Subscribe to Radiolab wherever you listen to podcasts: lnk.to/radiolab!youtube
🔎 Subscribe to Radiolab on YouTube: bit.ly/3I9KI53
🖋 Subscribe to Radiolab’s Newsletter: radiolab.org/newsletter
🌱 Check out Radiolab's Starter Kit Playlist: bit.ly/3sX8f4P
👍 Like this video ✏️ and leave us a comment!
Follow Radiolab:
Instagram — instagram.com/radiolab
X — https://x.com/Radiolab
Facebook — facebook.com/Radiolab
Threads — threads.net/@radiolab
TikTok — tiktok.com/@radiolab
Our newsletter includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up here: radiolab.org/newsletter
Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab today: radiolab.org/the-lab
Photo illustration by Jared Bartman
Video by W. Harry Fortuna
From the Radiolab podcast: This week, in an episode we first aired in 2022, we flip the Disney story of life on its head thanks to a barrel of seawater, a 1970s era computer, and underwater geysers. It’s the chaos of life.
Latif, Lulu and our senior producer Matt Kielty were all sitting on their own little stories until they got thrown into the studio and had their cherished beliefs about the shape of life put on a collision course. From an accidental study of sea creatures, to the ambitions of Stephen J Gould, to an undercooked theory that captured the world’s imagination, we undo the seeming order of the living world and try to make some music out of the wreckage. (Bonus: Learn how Francis Crick really thought life got started on this planet.)
EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by Latif Nasser, Matt Kielty, Heather Radke, Lulu Miller and Candice Wang
Produced by Matt Kielty and Simon Adler
with help from Arianne Wack
Original music and sound design contributed by Matt Kilety, Simon Adler, Alan Goffinski and Jeremy Bloom
EPISODE CITATIONS:
Articles -
Chaos in a long-term experiment with a plankton community (zpr.io/j6sYXKfDzPCG), by Benincà, E., Huisman, J., Heerkloss, R. et al. Nature
Chaos theory discloses triggers and drivers of plankton dynamics in stable environment (zpr.io/qHKENA3SJ8ML), by Telesh IV, Schubert H, Joehnk KD, Heerkloss R, Schumann R, Feike M, Schoor A, Skarlato SO. Sci Rep.
Books -
Full House (zpr.io/pMQZfyPcRzD4), by Stephen Jay Gould
Extinction: Bad Genes or Bad Luck? (zpr.io/pPVNugUKWpi4), by David M. Raup
Rereading the Fossil Record: The Growth of Paleobiology as an Evolutionary Discipline (zpr.io/YBjJxuXjydPN), by David Sepkoski
The Vital Question: Energy, Evolution, and the Origins of Complex Life (zpr.io/LzfueEqUWNHb), by Nick Lane
Life Itself: Its Origin and Nature (zpr.io/KPZf57eEVMBX), by Francis Crick
🎧 Subscribe to Radiolab wherever you listen to podcasts: lnk.to/radiolab!youtube
🔎 Subscribe to Radiolab on YouTube: bit.ly/3I9KI53
🖋 Subscribe to Radiolab’s Newsletter: radiolab.org/newsletter
🌱 Check out Radiolab's Starter Kit Playlist: bit.ly/3sX8f4P
👍 Like this video ✏️ and leave us a comment!
Follow Radiolab:
Instagram — instagram.com/radiolab
X — https://x.com/Radiolab
Facebook — facebook.com/Radiolab
Threads — threads.net/@radiolab
TikTok — tiktok.com/@radiolab
Our newsletter includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up here: radiolab.org/newsletter
Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab today: radiolab.org/the-lab
Photo illustration by Jared Bartman
Video by W. Harry Fortuna

![Border Trilogy Part 1: Hole in the Fence | Radiolab Podcast
From the Radiolab podcast: Part One of our Border Trilogy. An anthropologist finds something macabre in the desert. High schoolers challenge the Border Patrol.
While scouring the Sonoran Desert for objects left behind by migrants crossing into the United States, anthropologist Jason De León happened upon something he didnt expect to get left behind: a human arm, stripped of flesh.
This macabre discovery sent him reeling, needing to know what exactly happened to the body, and how many migrants die that way in the wilderness. In researching border-crosser deaths in the Arizona desert, he noticed something surprising. Sometime in the late-1990s, the number of migrant deaths shot up dramatically and have stayed high since. Jason traced this increase to a Border Patrol policy still in effect, called “Prevention Through Deterrence.”
In a series first aired back in 2018, over three episodes, Radiolab investigates this policy, its surprising origins, and the people whose lives were changed forever because of it.
Part 1: Hole in the Fence
We begin one afternoon in May 1992, when a student named Albert stumbled in late for history class at Bowie High School in El Paso, Texas. His excuse: Border Patrol. Soon more stories of students getting stopped and harassed by Border Patrol started pouring in. So begins the unlikely story of how a handful of Mexican-American high schoolers in one of the poorest neighborhoods in the country stood up to what is today the country’s largest federal law enforcement agency. They had no way of knowing at the time, but what would follow was a chain of events that would drastically change the US-Mexico border.
Special thanks to Centro de Salud Familiar La Fe, Estela Reyes López, Barbara Hines, Lynn M. Morgan, Mallory Falk, Francesca Begos and Nancy Wiese from Hachette Book Group, Professor Michael Olivas at the University of Houston Law Center, and Josiah McC. Heyman at the Center for Interamerican and Border Studies.
[CONTENT WARNING: The second segment of this episode contains graphic descriptions of bodies in the desert, and may not be appropriate for a young or sensitive audience.]
🎧 Subscribe to Radiolab wherever you listen to podcasts: https://bit.ly/3trXDLe
🔎 Subscribe to Radiolab on YouTube: https://bit.ly/3I9KI53
🖋 Subscribe to Radiolab’s Newsletter: https://radiolab.org/newsletter
🌱 Check out Radiolabs Starter Kit Playlist: https://bit.ly/3sX8f4P
👍 Like this video ✏️ and leave us a comment!
Follow Radiolab:
Instagram — https://www.instagram.com/radiolab
Twitter — https://twitter.com/Radiolab
Facebook — https://www.facebook.com/Radiolab
Our newsletter comes out every Wednesday. It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up here: https://radiolab.org/newsletter
Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab today: https://radiolab.org/the-lab
Guests in this episode include: Jason De León, Juan Sybert-Coronado, Nidia Rodriguez, Ernesto Muñoz, Marcela De Leon, Ricardo Vielma, Ben Murillo, David Ham, Tony Santos, Albert Armendariz Jr.
Photo illustration Jared Bartman
Video by W. Harry Fortuna Border Trilogy Part 1: Hole in the Fence | Radiolab Podcast](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nIkrAyQEP_0/mqdefault.jpg)








